New‐onset autoimmune phenomena post‐Covid‐19 vaccination • Hacker News Board

Re: New‐onset autoimmune phenomena post‐Covid‐19 vaccination

#91

Post by robbiep » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 12:51 PM UTC

alexmcc81 wrote: post #80

robbiep wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read my comment you will see that it is not, in fact an attack on you and if I had not made the unfortunate use of the word ‘claim’ and instead said ‘I’d like to counter your anecdote with one of my own …… and lets wait until there’s more data’ then we wouldn’t be having this thread. As it stands I apologise and also retract my snappy comment that you are replying to above. The problem with anecdote, whichever…

I agree and I really hope that in the long term the data proves any side effects are extremely rare and my experience is an outlier. The way the public conversation has unfolded in this crisis has been extremely disappointing to say the least and I understand your position. All the misinformation, conspiracy theories and politicising has made any real conversation impossible. Anything can and will be used to undermin…

I couldn’t agree more

Re: New‐onset autoimmune phenomena post‐Covid‐19 vaccination

#92

Post by foxhop » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 12:51 PM UTC

feistypharit wrote: post #46

Don’t forget the placebo effect works both ways. All the antivax people that got the vaccine even though they may not have wanted to, are going attribute everything weird that then happens to the vaccine. This is all going to take years to sort out and figure out what’s real and what’s not. And we’ll never know 100%. The bigger issue is whether we’ll be able to trust our present or future leaders to let science do it…

No post body was provided.

Re: New‐onset autoimmune phenomena post‐Covid‐19 vaccination

#93

Post by patricko123 » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 12:52 PM UTC

How much of this can be explained by pure statistics? When you have vaccination rates of 60% and above, you're going to see very rare diseases and disorders show up in the treated population. Correlation doesn't imply causation.

It would be great to see what the prevalence of diseases in treated population is compared to that in the previously (pre-covid) untreated population, I expect that comparing against the currently untreated population could be problematic due to the higher incidence of covid in this population.

I feel that the paper (from a scan admittedly) is more a anecdotal listing of cases so I don't get a feel for whether the needle has shifted or not wrt autoimmune case incidence. While I think it's a great idea to look into the effects of the vaccination on folks, I also fear that the downside effects of anti-vaxxers waving this paper around out of context saying you see you shouldn't get vaccinated because you're going to have all these autoimmune issues.

Re: New‐onset autoimmune phenomena post‐Covid‐19 vaccination

#94

Post by giantg2 » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 12:52 PM UTC

robbiep wrote: post #63

throwaway2474 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Australian with pericarditis here. Both my cardiologist and GP told me they’ve seen a flood of patients (mostly 30-something men) and both told me separately that the published numbers are obviously wrong. What I think is occurring, at least in the case of myo/pericarditis, is that nobody reports cases unless the outcome is really bad. GPs do not habitually report to the TGA, and most specialists don’t either. So the…

The TGA reporting is incredibly easy so that is disappointing. Speaking to my sister (cardiologist) and colleagues in GPland and physicians training I have not heard this - although I am easily able to accept that peri/myocarditis in its mild to moderate forms is more prevalent than the reported instances. I don’t wish to minimise your own experience but think the real crux will be if broader, more significantly life…

Here in the US, the VEARS system is pretty easy to file a report. It suffers from severe under reporting.

Re: New‐onset autoimmune phenomena post‐Covid‐19 vaccination

#95

Post by giantg2 » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 12:53 PM UTC

throwaway2474 wrote: post #38

robbiep wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m sorry to hear about your issues. With respect, I’ll take a stand against your claim of there being a tsunami of patients with vaccine injuries innundating rheumatologists - I am in the field and continue to ask colleagues if they are seeing anything of the sort and no-one has seen anything like this. However, if it is happening, we will surely see it in the data. Australia is almost fully vaccinated (but also mor…

Australian with pericarditis here. Both my cardiologist and GP told me they’ve seen a flood of patients (mostly 30-something men) and both told me separately that the published numbers are obviously wrong. What I think is occurring, at least in the case of myo/pericarditis, is that nobody reports cases unless the outcome is really bad. GPs do not habitually report to the TGA, and most specialists don’t either. So the…

Same here in the US with VAERS.

Re: New‐onset autoimmune phenomena post‐Covid‐19 vaccination

#96

Post by codeflow2202 » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 1:01 PM UTC

patricko123 wrote: post #93

How much of this can be explained by pure statistics? When you have vaccination rates of 60% and above, you're going to see very rare diseases and disorders show up in the treated population. Correlation doesn't imply causation. It would be great to see what the prevalence of diseases in treated population is compared to that in the previously (pre-covid) untreated population, I expect that comparing against the curr…

Downplay or pretend that side-effects do not exist will only exacerbate the already high distrust on medical institutions. Acknowledgement, sincerity and the will to improve is the only way to fix the huge distrust that has been built in the last couple years (or maybe decades).

Re: New‐onset autoimmune phenomena post‐Covid‐19 vaccination

#97

Post by joshuahughes » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 1:09 PM UTC

core-utility wrote: post #88

mauvehaus wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A good first step might be making sure the population is educated sufficiently to identify and weigh the risks between a 1 in 1,000,000 side effect, the disease the vaccine protects against, and the pure bullshit peddled by fear mongers. Right now, we have people in the US who still believe that Covid is no worse than a bad case of the flu. All the evidence (at least for the pre Omicron variants) suggests that the re…

I'm just an anecdote, but I've had COVID. It was less than a bad case of the flu. To pretend that it affects everyone equally and that they're all the worst thing ever is malpractice. Risk communication should always have been striated by age/comorbidity and let people make decisions from there.

I'm a very similar anecdote. Yes, covid sucked, but it was a mild 48hr illness in my experience. (And in the experience of dozens of my friends.)

It's quite incredible that the GP can complain on the one hand about "the pure bullshit peddled by fear mongers" and then — without apparently recognising the irony — goes on to peddle fear themselves.

Re: New‐onset autoimmune phenomena post‐Covid‐19 vaccination

#98

Post by raverbashing » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 1:16 PM UTC

rjsw wrote: post #79

raverbashing wrote: post #6

Anyone that's worried about autoimmune phenomena after vaccination should look at autoimmune phenomena post Covid infection

Maybe the people affected would have got the same autoimmune reaction from both vaccination and infection. For me, the post-viral symptoms have been a lot worse than the virus itself.

> Maybe the people affected would have got the same autoimmune reaction from both vaccination and infection.

Hard to tell directly, as it also has to do with how the virus spreads during an infection in a given person. But it is certainly a good area of research.

Re: New‐onset autoimmune phenomena post‐Covid‐19 vaccination

#99

Post by cromwellian » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 1:19 PM UTC

core-utility wrote: post #88

mauvehaus wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A good first step might be making sure the population is educated sufficiently to identify and weigh the risks between a 1 in 1,000,000 side effect, the disease the vaccine protects against, and the pure bullshit peddled by fear mongers. Right now, we have people in the US who still believe that Covid is no worse than a bad case of the flu. All the evidence (at least for the pre Omicron variants) suggests that the re…

I'm just an anecdote, but I've had COVID. It was less than a bad case of the flu. To pretend that it affects everyone equally and that they're all the worst thing ever is malpractice. Risk communication should always have been striated by age/comorbidity and let people make decisions from there.

I’ve had it to, after I was vaccinated. The thing is, you don’t know ahead of time how it will affect you. There are lots of examples of 30 something, fit, athletic even, people with no preexisting conditions, getting very sick and hospitalized, dying, or ending up with long COVID.

Beyond that, many people who are sick with it won’t quarantine themselves for 10 days or wear masks and end up infecting others —- assuming they even know they’re infected.

So this attitude of “well it was no big deal for me” does nothing to attenuate the risk downwards for others.

There’s a hell of a lot of selfishness going on by people who just don’t want to be inconvenienced by behavioral changes to protect others.

Re: New‐onset autoimmune phenomena post‐Covid‐19 vaccination

#100

Post by cromwellian » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 1:21 PM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #69

elif wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I relate. After my vaccination I had about 2 months of severe pains in my gut. I only told a few people because I really believe in the power of the vaccine and know people will twist my own words.

Hopefully you reported to VAERS. People need to report potential events so that the data is present to do statistical analysis on. It's a shame how terrible the data currently is with all the under reporting.

VAERS is garbage in, garbage out. There is no curation since it is self reported, you may as well mine Reddit comments or Twitter to get the same data.