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LucasFilm Tells Darth Vader that Return of the Jedi Hasn’t Made a Profit

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Re: LucasFilm Tells Darth Vader that Return of the Jedi Hasn’t Made a Profit

#51

Post by bfe »

bfe wrote: post #17

One of my intellectual property law professors, with fifty years experience in just about every kind of I.P. licensing scenario possible, all over the world, recommended it's almost always best in an I.P. license to ask for a flat fee first, and a small percentage of gross revenue with a short, hard reckoning date second. The more bargaining power you have, the higher you should bump up your position for upfront flat…

Just to add, there are a million different possible situations, and "almost always" is a big exaggeration here, and I don't know anything about the particular case in the post. But the point remains; there is often virtue in simplicity.

Re: LucasFilm Tells Darth Vader that Return of the Jedi Hasn’t Made a Profit

#52

Post by officemonkey »

ErikCorry wrote: post #47
philwelch wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alec Guinness was a Serious Actor with plenty of impressive film appearances under his belt. Of course he had more pull.

Maybe the fact that people would have noticed if they had replaced him in the sequels also strengthened his bargaining position.

I don't think Sir Alec ever thought there would be sequels. Especially since he dies in the first movie.

I think it's just a matter of good bargaining. At the time, Guinness had been in the movies for three-plus decades. Prowse's career hovered just above the "extra" category. Prowse probably signed whatever contract they gave him; Guinness probably dictated terms.

Re: LucasFilm Tells Darth Vader that Return of the Jedi Hasn’t Made a Profit

#53

Post by JoeAltmaier »

noonespecial wrote: post #37

I'm always fascinated by the way institutionalized dishonesty creeps into entire industries. From used car salesmen to film moguls, once a certain practice has ossified over the years into "everyone in the biz does it", practices that would result in jail time in other industries are simply accepted as business as usual. Even more curious, everyone to the man knows its wrong, but no one moves to change it. The empero…

You can't be the 1st to change; you'd get run over.

Re: LucasFilm Tells Darth Vader that Return of the Jedi Hasn’t Made a Profit

#54

Post by larrik »

I don't know why this is such a surprise to everyone. Outside of the startup scene, showing net profit is a Bad Thing. It increases liability to taxes and to employees[1], etc.

Maybe public companies are different (though since, movie studios are just about all subsidiaries of public companies, maybe not), but in my dealings with many multi-million dollar companies (especially those with union contracts to deal with), they find any way possible to show a loss on the balance sheet.

Between accounting tricks and taking money off the table through reinvesting (real or imagined) and executive salaries, profit is basically a made up number based on whatever management wants it to be.

Taking any percentage of net profit, in plenty of industries, is basically the same as taking nothing.

On a side note: the article and the one from the other day that mentioned this story as well only seemed to consider box office gross as the movie's revenue. I mean how many of us just on HN have more bought or gotten than one copy of the Star Wars movies over the years? I know I have at least 3 hanging around, to say nothing of TV airings and the like.

[1]Liability to employees: Through profit-sharing programs, raise discussions, union contract talks, etc., publicly showing a "profit" can cost the company money.

Re: LucasFilm Tells Darth Vader that Return of the Jedi Hasn’t Made a Profit

#55

Post by rbanffy »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #53
noonespecial wrote: post #37

I'm always fascinated by the way institutionalized dishonesty creeps into entire industries. From used car salesmen to film moguls, once a certain practice has ossified over the years into "everyone in the biz does it", practices that would result in jail time in other industries are simply accepted as business as usual. Even more curious, everyone to the man knows its wrong, but no one moves to change it. The empero…

You can't be the 1st to change; you'd get run over.

Only if you were unable to actually turn a net profit.

What would happen instead is that more actors and writers would be willing to work with you because they knew they'd get a fair share of the whole deal.

Re: LucasFilm Tells Darth Vader that Return of the Jedi Hasn’t Made a Profit

#56

Post by philh »

ZachPruckowski wrote: post #50
ahlatimer wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that it isn't the government suing these companies, it's the people named in the credits.

Right (I blame 1AM posting for my error), but counting on $DISTRICT_JUDGE to bring down the hammer is equally over-optimistic. If one can barely get a judge to wade in on "a clearly fraudulent document was submitted to your court" when it undermines a foreclosure, I'm pessimistic about the idea that $GUESS is going to be show-stopping.

The hope is that Hollywood would settle rather than take that risk. It's happened at least once before. Perhaps with higher stakes they would change strategies.

Re: LucasFilm Tells Darth Vader that Return of the Jedi Hasn’t Made a Profit

#57

Post by usedtolurk »

noonespecial wrote: post #37

I'm always fascinated by the way institutionalized dishonesty creeps into entire industries. From used car salesmen to film moguls, once a certain practice has ossified over the years into "everyone in the biz does it", practices that would result in jail time in other industries are simply accepted as business as usual. Even more curious, everyone to the man knows its wrong, but no one moves to change it. The empero…

Many would say the same thing about the software industry.

Re: LucasFilm Tells Darth Vader that Return of the Jedi Hasn’t Made a Profit

#58

Post by alttag »

thebooktocome wrote: post #43
chc wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Donating 5% of your net worth to charity is praiseworthy, but it's not really anything special, particularly for people in that range of disposable income. He could probably release another boxed set of the original trilogy and make the entire amount back. Every active Mormon donates twice that much to their church.

The Mormon church is hardly a laudable "non-profit" charity.

Okay, they have some real estate holdings. But they've also provided significant relief for every major disaster in the past century. In addition, they offer job search assistance, food assistance, etc., through a network of farms, canneries and thrift stores. And all of this is funded by member donations in addition to the 10% mentioned by the GP.

But none of that's the point. The GP was pointing out that a not insignificant portion of the population donates more than 10% of their income on a regular basis. In light of that, 5% isn't much, particularly for someone with a great deal of income.

Re: LucasFilm Tells Darth Vader that Return of the Jedi Hasn’t Made a Profit

#59

Post by utefan001 »

thebooktocome wrote: post #43
chc wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Donating 5% of your net worth to charity is praiseworthy, but it's not really anything special, particularly for people in that range of disposable income. He could probably release another boxed set of the original trilogy and make the entire amount back. Every active Mormon donates twice that much to their church.

The Mormon church is hardly a laudable "non-profit" charity.

Since you brought it up. My experience is that the Mormon church is a very laudable charity.

Humanitarian efforts relieve suffering for families of all nationalities and religions.

-In 2010 the Church provided relief to people affected by 119 disasters in 58 countries.

-Over 7.5 million people now have access to clean water because of Church efforts from 2002 through 2010.

-Since 2002, over 193,000 health care workers have been trained in Neonatal Resuscitation Training. The World Health Organization estimates that 1 million newborns die each year of breathing difficulties.

-Since 2003, over 550,000 people have benefitted from Church vision projects throughout the world.

http://lds.org/service/humanitarian/church?lang=eng

Re: LucasFilm Tells Darth Vader that Return of the Jedi Hasn’t Made a Profit

#60

Post by [deleted] »

thebooktocome wrote: post #43
chc wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Donating 5% of your net worth to charity is praiseworthy, but it's not really anything special, particularly for people in that range of disposable income. He could probably release another boxed set of the original trilogy and make the entire amount back. Every active Mormon donates twice that much to their church.

The Mormon church is hardly a laudable "non-profit" charity.

[deleted]
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