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I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

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Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#111

Post by bondant »

I'm still using my W510 from 2010 every day. Since most of my work is done on remote computer I don't need much power anyway. I have only updated the old hard drive with a good SSD. I also have plenty of ports (VGA, DP, RJ45, 3 USB), and the laptop is very sturdy I let it fall many times by mistakes and even through there are some cracks in the case it is still perfectly usable.

Although it's not perfect, the laptop is heavy (about 3kg) and thick (about 3cm). But when I look at possible modern alternative it seems there aren't many which offer multiple ports and easy to do maintenance in a somewhat slim and lightweight case. The closest I've seen is the Fujitsu Lifebook U741X series (if someone has used it with Linux please share your experience). I'm also aware of the Framework laptop but it's bleeding edge so I better wait and see how it turns out to be repairable and robust.

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#112

Post by dotancohen »

bjarneh wrote: post #43

After upgrading the display, CPU, disk, RAM, fan, battery it's a bit click-baity to say you've gone back to a 2012 ThinkPad - but interesting read non the less. What surprised me the most is that Lenovo ships something as annoying as a loud fan (easily replaceable even for a home tinkerer). Of course they save a few pennies per laptop; but no laptop can ever be good if it's noisy. That was one of the main reasons why…

I've got a dozen ergonomic and mechanical keyboards. The feel of the keyboard is very important to me, just like a good fountain pen. So when my employer was giving to me a new Thinkpad I was excited. Thinkpad was the only laptop whose keyboard I could stand.

This T-14 has a keyboard as horrible as any Asus. It looks exactly like the standard Thinkpad keyboard, but the key travel, the bottoming-out, the spring pressure, are all horrible. Even just rubbing the finger over the plastic it feels half as thick as the previous models, you don't even need to press a key to feel the difference.

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#113

Post by jkepler »

zbrozek wrote: post #98
iamevn wrote: post #19

A couple months ago I pulled my x220 that I hadn't used in 3 years out of the closet and got it all updated to do some hobby programming while visiting parents. My only other laptops were a work machine (X1 Carbon, I want to say from 2019) that I didn't want to travel with and a Surface Go that I didn't want to wrangle into having a decent dev environment. When I booted it up, I checked the most recent entry in pacma…

I used an x220 as my primary machine for a long time. The low resolution screen and the unusually crappy touchpad are what got me to upgrade. The touchpad in particular was horrible because it had different resolutions in X and Y. In one of those (I don't remember which) it was lower than the screen. So I found myself frequently unable to get to the 1 pixel wide handles to resize windows without the wigglestick.

I turned the touchpad off on my x220 and simply used the track point.

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#114

Post by zhdc1 »

zwaps wrote: post #73
jillesvangurp wrote: post #17

I'm all for frugality but that seems like a lot of compromises for what is this person's main work laptop. Cool that it works; but why have a slow workhorse like that? I picked up a Samsung Galaxybook a few weeks ago. Nice core i5 system on a chip thing with Iris XE gpu. Runs cool including when under load and it's fast enough. Driver support seems decent in Linux. Even the graphics are quite alright. I played some s…

For one thing (for me, at least): The keyboard. I have yet to see a good keyboard on a modern laptop, and I use a lot of different ones. Some people do not care, but I do. There's some keyboards that are "still decent", but all of them are progressively getting worse. Well, they say that Mac keyboards are getting better again, but I don't like their zero-keytravel style in the first place, not even in the ones that w…

It's worth pointing out that there were several different OEMs for those older Thinkpads, and unfortunately the typing experience depends a lot on which one you have.

The NMB manufactured keyboards are excellent. The others can be hit or miss.

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#115

Post by jkepler »

formerly_proven wrote: post #101
crypt1d wrote: post #70

Seems like lots of IT folks have fond memories of the T420/T430 (and X220) era. I personally think it was the golden age of the Thinkpad line, going back perhaps to T40/T42, it was some of the best laptops I ever worked on. No other laptop has come close to getting it right since. It was really the perfect combination of build quality, modularity and performance that won me over. I'm now on the new M1 Pro Mac and whi…

I've used an X200 for ten years (I bought it used with 3 years on the clock) and I'm actually surprised that the X200 is kind of glorified nowadays as one of the best Thinkpads ever, because back then the X200 was decried for its numerous build quality issues (palmrest, right half of the keyboard, thermals, noise etc.). The X200 is of course build fairly well compared to the more recent models, but that's hardly surp…

I still use my x200s, though its battery barely holds a charge, so I use it docked with am external monitor, as a desktop machine. Most of my work is writing, so no issues with its lower CPU compared with newer machines.

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#116

Post by justsomehnguy »

zwaps wrote: post #73
jillesvangurp wrote: post #17

I'm all for frugality but that seems like a lot of compromises for what is this person's main work laptop. Cool that it works; but why have a slow workhorse like that? I picked up a Samsung Galaxybook a few weeks ago. Nice core i5 system on a chip thing with Iris XE gpu. Runs cool including when under load and it's fast enough. Driver support seems decent in Linux. Even the graphics are quite alright. I played some s…

For one thing (for me, at least): The keyboard. I have yet to see a good keyboard on a modern laptop, and I use a lot of different ones. Some people do not care, but I do. There's some keyboards that are "still decent", but all of them are progressively getting worse. Well, they say that Mac keyboards are getting better again, but I don't like their zero-keytravel style in the first place, not even in the ones that w…

> The keyboard

But what about the keyboard /layout/? My rant at [0]

To clarify it somewhat, currently I have a laptop with two Fn keys. I rarely use the right one, but it feels very organic when I do.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29807256

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#117

Post by zhdc1 »

javchz wrote: post #88

My main Laptop it's a T430, and from time to time I use a T440p. It's amazing how you can disassemble the whole thing with only one screwdriver and upgrade almost everything. The T420 keyboard mod it's what's stopping me from upgrading to a newer model. Don't get me wrong it's not mechanical or anything, but has the comfiest layout I have tried on any laptop so far. There are some drawbacks: * New batteries are rare…

> The display it's bad

You can retrofit a 1080p lcd with a controller board and a little effort.

> M1 Macbooks are probably the best cost-benefit laptop out there for a lot of people (battery, display, cpu power), and I kinda want to try one. But I don't feel comfortable voting with my wallet for Apple's practices, especially with how hostile they have been with the "right to repair" movement.

I'm not a particular fan of Apple either, but the M1 Macbook was the first laptop that made me want to permanently switch from my old x220. It's simply that much better.

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#118

Post by bener »

NGRhodes wrote: post #30

I like to buy ex-corporate ~5 year old Thinkpads, get from a seller who gives atleast 6 months warranty, put new batteries in and they are usually far better in every way than anything new for the same price. Am currently very happy with my T460S, runs Linux or Win10 great. My previous machines that the kids use for school work and Roblox are x250 and x220, and previous to that I have an X200 and a T61, that all last…

I would vouch for this approach too. Ex lease laptops are really cheap, I've got a gen4 x1 carbon for easy carry daily use, a t460s at home, and so many of my customers love their ex lease Lenovos.

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#119

Post by bjarneh »

xxs wrote: post #68
bjarneh wrote: post #43

After upgrading the display, CPU, disk, RAM, fan, battery it's a bit click-baity to say you've gone back to a 2012 ThinkPad - but interesting read non the less. What surprised me the most is that Lenovo ships something as annoying as a loud fan (easily replaceable even for a home tinkerer). Of course they save a few pennies per laptop; but no laptop can ever be good if it's noisy. That was one of the main reasons why…

"upgrading the display, CPU, disk, RAM, fan, battery it's a bit click-baity to say you've gone back to a 2012 ThinkPad - but interesting read non the less." That's the good part - it's possible, and it's serviceable. My spouse uses a 10y (almost 11y) laptop, it has pretty much everything changed & upgraded. CPU, RAM, keyboard, CD->SSD, HDD->SSD, battery, fan, wifi 801.1 b/g -> ac+bluetooth. The discrete GPU is not re…

> That's the good part - it's possible, and it's serviceable.

Agreed. The way things are constructed now (cell phones are of course 10 times worse), where everything is glued in place in order to break if anyone tries to replace them are terrible. The tinker tutorials on youtube seem to be more about which temperature different glue melts at, and which temperature the parts glued get destroyed at; then anything else.

My next laptop will probably be a https://frame.work laptop for that very reason.

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#120

Post by fsflover »

the_only_law wrote: post #38
fsflover wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the same advantages, plus 64 GB RAM, hardware kill switches, thin metal design, Coreboot and no compromises: https://puri.sm/products/librem-14

Well… maybe aside from price. It is kinda cool that I can get it shipped with Qubes though, which I assume means hardware support is solid.

How much did it cost to perform all your upgrades?
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