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I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

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Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#101
post #70

Seems like lots of IT folks have fond memories of the T420/T430 (and X220) era. I personally think it was the golden age of the Thinkpad line, going back perhaps to T40/T42, it was some of the best laptops I ever worked on. No other laptop has come close to getting it right since. It was really the perfect combination of build quality, modularity and performance that won me over. I'm now on the new M1 Pro Mac and whi…

I've used an X200 for ten years (I bought it used with 3 years on the clock) and I'm actually surprised that the X200 is kind of glorified nowadays as one of the best Thinkpads ever, because back then the X200 was decried for its numerous build quality issues (palmrest, right half of the keyboard, thermals, noise etc.). The X200 is of course build fairly well compared to the more recent models, but that's hardly surprising. From my PoV the Thinkpad series has been constantly and consistently reducing build quality for at least 15 years.

(That being said most of the issues the X200 has had were just things that feel poorly, it won't fall apart)

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#102
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with these projects is that they are all the hype for a while and after the hype dies down you are left with laptop that is only in theory upgradable.

You make it sound like it's a kickstarter.

I love frame.work as a concept, but it's definitely not a "proven" concept at the moment. The company could very well go under or choose not to support upgrading the laptop.

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#103
I've done the same only with a T440p.

Upgraded everything (cpu to 4 core to 47w model, max ram, CD replaced for SATA bay, screen to 1080p, touchpad to T450 version), even updated the bios to a modified version so I could set my own power curve parameters. Works great most of the time though the screen I got has deteriorated and needs replacement. I'm going to replace the fan as well as the bearing is giving out but it's not high speed on most of the time anyway.

Had a T430 before that with the same upgrades but that motherboard died.

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#104
I'm using an old T520 as my main machine for the similar reasons - it's a rock solid machine. Yes, I gave it more memory at one point, and I replaced the HDD with an SSD. No, nothing new comes close.

I only ever regret the decision when I am travelling through airports, when I see people effortlessly slide out their thin, light laptops while I heave around a machine of yesteryear, large and ominous-looking (I swear, the screening agent scrutinises the Thinkpad longer than he does look at your MBP), and heavy.

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#105
For Thinkpads, T450 (from 2015) probably hits the sweet spot as a daily driver. Few important notes:

* Haswell got most of the major ISA extensions like e.g. AVX2

* T440 did not have buttons for Trackpoint, making it pretty awful

* 802.11ac 5GHz wifi and USB 3 are nice to have

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#106

I find it funny how people seem to fixate so much on the fact that the author upgraded various components to say the title is misleading. As someone with apparently similar requirements, the take-away from this should be this: Even though significant work is required to keep these old machines working, some people prefer to do so. Crucially, they prefer it not because they love tinkering, but simply because the value…

It's a classic case of the Ship of Theseus.

https://open.library.okstate.edu/introphilosophy/chapter/shi...

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#107
post #15

> The CPU innovation stagnation between 2012-2017 has resulted in 4 cores still being an acceptable low-end CPU in early 2022 I recently got M1 Max MacBook, and I was expecting a huge jump from my 2010 Mac Pro, but on my day-to-day work. It is barely noticeable, despite the raving reviews of M1. Perhaps for me it is not about things getting obsolete, but more of that my own needs on CPU/GPU performance were pretty mu…

I think comparing old desktop with new laptop is going to give you different experience than comparing old laptop with new laptop.

I got M1 Air and not only is it a huge difference from my previous 2017 MPB 13" (which I gave to my mother who spilled coffee into her previous laptop), it is much better than my work provided 2019 MBP 16".

"Snappiness" is subjective and hard to measure, but the thermals are huge difference. My work MBP is sitting at 63°C with just Firefox pointed at HN. On both my old MBP and the work one, playing 1440p video (native screen resolution) would make it loud, and playing 4k video on 4k monitor would turn it into a vacuum cleaner.

The Air is completely silent at all times (it has no fan) and sits at 32°C while playing 1440p and maybe 40°C when playing 4k content.

It is of course possible, that this is all because the previous Macbooks were so bad (and due to hw decoding for common video formats) but I had similar "Jesus this is such a loud, overheating mess" experience with other laptops as well. But desktops have much better thermals already - so for you, the biggest difference would be the mobility I guess.

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#108
It's funny to read this on Thinkpad T520, only thing I upgraded is 240GB mSATA SSD disk for system and i had there already 8GB RAM with empty slot to upgrade (stil no issues, so not rushing to uprgade), keeping 320GB HDD for media and backup, thinking whether to buy external harddrive or Ultrabay adapter and install third hard drive since I don't use DVDRW at all anyway.

There is no problem with speed, I chose 520 because year later they already fucked up keyboards, not that it would matter now when I started to use later external keyboard, mouse and 32" display.

Btw. I don't understand his issue with HDMI, I have connected display directly through DP cable.

Instead of tablet I'd consider for wife something like X230/240.

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make it sound like it's a kickstarter.

I love frame.work as a concept, but it's definitely not a "proven" concept at the moment. The company could very well go under or choose not to support upgrading the laptop.

Even assuming Framework shuts down tomorrow and destroys their existing stock of replacement parts and the specs for making new ones, I would argue that you can at the very least assume permanent availability of RAM, SSD, Display (it uses a commodity panel), fan, and battery (there are knockoff batteries for much more obscure laptops).

I would assume that keyboards, trackpads, etc. will also be available as some laptops bite the dust and are scavenged for parts.

Whether the motherboard/CPU will actually be upgradeable obviously remains to be seen. The 11th Gen CPUs get a lot of flak, but they have good single-core performance which will make them suitable for general use for a long time.

It's at least equally upgradeable as the first ThinkPads with soldered on CPUs, which by today's standards is still pretty good - and if framework deliver on their promises, then it will be even better. But either way the baseline isn't bad.

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#110
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For one thing (for me, at least): The keyboard. I have yet to see a good keyboard on a modern laptop, and I use a lot of different ones. Some people do not care, but I do. There's some keyboards that are "still decent", but all of them are progressively getting worse. Well, they say that Mac keyboards are getting better again, but I don't like their zero-keytravel style in the first place, not even in the ones that w…

Have you tried the ones with mechanical keyboards like the TUXEDO Stellaris 15?

Keyboard + reliability (they almost never break) + price (200 USD vs 1.8K EUR).

I've since switched to an M1 Macbook, but until last year, I spend a good four-five years working from an x220t and x220. As long as the battery is in decent shape, there still really isn't a better value proposition than the old T420-T430 era Thinkpads.

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