Encryption is "activily bein worked on", sound about right - I never got encryption to work across two of my own devices with a third party. Yet I do not understand why a rewrite of messaging as [matrix] was necessary, when XMPP was already there and matrix did not even have an edit-message feature on release, perhaps not even now.
XMPP: The secure communication protocol that respects privacy
11–20 of 160 posts
Re: XMPP: The secure communication protocol that respects privacy
#12Earlier quoted context omitted.
Matrix supports encryption out-of-the-box without any strange key exchange problems. Most of the time the way key exchange is done in XMPP is very insecure.
> Most of the time the way key exchange is done in XMPP is very insecure. We have OMEMO now, key exchange is paranoia-level secure.
Currently, verification seems to work on a session basis and not just per user, which makes it very tedious to have everything verified e.g. a group chat. If it is not almost impossible given peoples sessions change with time.
Add a new session in the browser -> meet every contact to verify their sessions with your new browser session? Doesn't seem very practical, and reminds me of the old times in [matrix].
This opens room for MITM attacks
Re: XMPP: The secure communication protocol that respects privacy
#13Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've seen movim around but I have never actually tried it. This post gave me the push. So thank you for that. I do have a question though: On https://mov.im/?login it says: "Login using any XMPP account or create a new one" But it only shows me a login form where I can enter my xmpp address and a password. This signals to me that I can log into my existing non-movim-xmpp account, but I have to enter my password on th…
Movim is a social-oriented XMPP client, so yes, it needs to log in to your account. You don't have to use the mov.im instance - in an ideal world your own server can run a copy of Movim, but you can also self-host, or even run it locally on your system. This year I'm also going to be working on account access delegation for XMPP as part of a funded project, resulting in implementation in Prosody (server software) and…
So that I can do something along the lines of "Log in with XMPP" and then my client asks me "hey do you wanna allow movim.eu to access foo/do bar on your behalf" ?
That sounds very useful. Sharing my password like this does not seem a great idea.
Re: XMPP: The secure communication protocol that respects privacy
#14Encryption is "activily bein worked on", sound about right - I never got encryption to work across two of my own devices with a third party. Yet I do not understand why a rewrite of messaging as [matrix] was necessary, when XMPP was already there and matrix did not even have an edit-message feature on release, perhaps not even now.
XMPP and matrix solve related, but somewhat different problems. The Matrix approach is that everything is a stateful chatroom with history in which users can join or leave, while for XMPP there are only users (entities) which exchange objects that may or may not be text messages. It doesn't really care what happens after the fragments have been delivered.
Re: XMPP: The secure communication protocol that respects privacy
#15Earlier quoted context omitted.
XMPP and matrix solve related, but somewhat different problems. The Matrix approach is that everything is a stateful chatroom with history in which users can join or leave, while for XMPP there are only users (entities) which exchange objects that may or may not be text messages. It doesn't really care what happens after the fragments have been delivered.
It still would be nice if Matrix was built upon the existing Internet Standard for instant messaging.
And, more importantly, why would you want to do that? What would be the benefit if that was done?
Re: XMPP: The secure communication protocol that respects privacy
#16Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Most of the time the way key exchange is done in XMPP is very insecure. We have OMEMO now, key exchange is paranoia-level secure.
How resistant to MITM is it though? Currently, verification seems to work on a session basis and not just per user, which makes it very tedious to have everything verified e.g. a group chat. If it is not almost impossible given peoples sessions change with time. Add a new session in the browser -> meet every contact to verify their sessions with your new browser session? Doesn't seem very practical, and reminds me of…
Also you don't have to meet with everyone to verify new keys, you can just use a known good key for that. Essentially, if you want 100% security by comparing keys in a meetup, you can do that once and then use that known good channel to verify every new key.
In reality, cryptonerds will be happy to verify every single new key, everyone else will never bother to even open the key signature view and I will get a confused call should it be opened by accident.
> This opens room for MITM attacks
Yes, in your constructed strawman world xmpp is prone to MITM. In reality it's equally or less prone than its competitors.
Re: XMPP: The secure communication protocol that respects privacy
#17Earlier quoted context omitted.
It still would be nice if Matrix was built upon the existing Internet Standard for instant messaging.
How would it be even possible to build Matrix, as it is today, on XMPP? And, more importantly, why would you want to do that? What would be the benefit if that was done?
Re: XMPP: The secure communication protocol that respects privacy
#18Re: XMPP: The secure communication protocol that respects privacy
#19Earlier quoted context omitted.
How would it be even possible to build Matrix, as it is today, on XMPP? And, more importantly, why would you want to do that? What would be the benefit if that was done?
The benefit would be that history would be kept and be viewable from different accounts. The problem would be that the history would have to be MITM'd on the matrix-xmpp-server-bridge because the encryption models aren't compatible. The server would need to manage omemo keys for the user and would thus need ultimate trust.
Re: XMPP: The secure communication protocol that respects privacy
#20Encryption is "activily bein worked on", sound about right - I never got encryption to work across two of my own devices with a third party. Yet I do not understand why a rewrite of messaging as [matrix] was necessary, when XMPP was already there and matrix did not even have an edit-message feature on release, perhaps not even now.