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Serotonin selectively influences moral judgment and behavior

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Re: Serotonin selectively influences moral judgment and behavior

#81

Post by mirekrusin »

Enginerrrd wrote: post #70
andrei_says_ wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would like to recommend a lecture by George Lakoff - The Neuroscience of Language and Thought https://youtu.be/JJP-rkilz40 Within the first 10 minutes he speaks of the fact that rational thought as we see it simply does not exist. All our choices are based on the ability to distinguish a preference and that ability is based on emotion. It would only make sense that medication impairing our emotions would also impai…

Not only that, but if meditation has taught me anything, it's that your "conscious rational thought" isn't really conscious. ...like, basically at all. The decisions are getting made unconsciously and then kicked up to your conscious attention, already made.

There is a proof for this - when you're dreaming and hear some noise that wakes you up, in many cases the plot of your dream in last second or so will be constructed around that sound - in other words, your brain would have to know the future if it was all realtime, it leaks out faking reality perception.

Re: Serotonin selectively influences moral judgment and behavior

#82

Post by sorethescore »

o10449366 wrote: post #3

(Just my personal, anecdotal experience - I have strong family history of depression and anxiety on both sides of my family and it's something that's afflicted me since I was a teenager.) I will be extremely hesitant to take antidepressants and anti-anxiety medications ever again after my last experience with them. For me, the medications helped by tempering all of my feelings - I no longer felt sad or anxious, inste…

This is why antidepressants should only be used during periods of crisis when a person is at risk; in my opinion, for no longer than 3-6 months at most, after which they should be tapered off and transitioned to a more sustainable long term treatment modality.

Re: Serotonin selectively influences moral judgment and behavior

#83

Post by tamaharbor »

rjh29 wrote: post #69
o10449366 wrote: post #3

(Just my personal, anecdotal experience - I have strong family history of depression and anxiety on both sides of my family and it's something that's afflicted me since I was a teenager.) I will be extremely hesitant to take antidepressants and anti-anxiety medications ever again after my last experience with them. For me, the medications helped by tempering all of my feelings - I no longer felt sad or anxious, inste…

Anecdotally I had the same response. I found they helped anxiety a lot, but did not help depression as I just felt even more disconnected and apathetic to things. What helped me was switching away from a first-line SSRI and onto something a bit more niche: Mirtazapine. It's definitely worth trying a variety of SSRIs because everyone is different and it's really common for the first one or two that you try to not work…

Does the Mirtazapine make you sleepy all the time?

Re: Serotonin selectively influences moral judgment and behavior

#84

Post by o10449366 »

johnchristopher wrote: post #47
o10449366 wrote: post #3

(Just my personal, anecdotal experience - I have strong family history of depression and anxiety on both sides of my family and it's something that's afflicted me since I was a teenager.) I will be extremely hesitant to take antidepressants and anti-anxiety medications ever again after my last experience with them. For me, the medications helped by tempering all of my feelings - I no longer felt sad or anxious, inste…

> My moral code was compromised because I no longer felt the guilt and shame that normally inhibits unscrupulous behavior. Hope I am not out of bond but I think this demonstrates why a moral code also has to be an intellectual thing and not just an instinct thing.

I agree and for me it is, but what I learned from that experience is how powerful and influential our emotional state is. It really made me feel like a psychopath at times because I would understand how I "should" feel or do in a given situation, but without a strong emotional signal it felt like it didn't matter what choices I made.

Re: Serotonin selectively influences moral judgment and behavior

#85

Post by symlinkk »

Ozzie_osman wrote: post #65

It's crazy how our brains and bodies are just a cocktail of hormones and neurotransmitters. Change that mix, and it can change the very nature of who we think we are. Things that you might associate with your very identity, like optimism/pessimism, ability to focus, moral judgment, how collaborative or generous you are, aggressiveness, all can be influenced by hormones or neurotransmitters.

Yes it brings up uncomfortable questions about free will. Like “why did he murder that guy? did he choose to do it or did the chemicals in his brain force him to?”

Re: Serotonin selectively influences moral judgment and behavior

#86

Post by ikiris »

meiji163 wrote: post #52
o10449366 wrote: post #3

(Just my personal, anecdotal experience - I have strong family history of depression and anxiety on both sides of my family and it's something that's afflicted me since I was a teenager.) I will be extremely hesitant to take antidepressants and anti-anxiety medications ever again after my last experience with them. For me, the medications helped by tempering all of my feelings - I no longer felt sad or anxious, inste…

Quoted post unavailable.

I hear insulin is the same way. Eventually they still die, and OMG IF THEY STOP THEY DIE TOO.

/sigh.

please stop this, you're contributing to the stigma both in terms of mental health, and that lifesaving medication is somehow an addition.

Re: Serotonin selectively influences moral judgment and behavior

#87

Post by mitchdoogle »

ikiris wrote: post #86
meiji163 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

I hear insulin is the same way. Eventually they still die, and OMG IF THEY STOP THEY DIE TOO. /sigh. please stop this, you're contributing to the stigma both in terms of mental health, and that lifesaving medication is somehow an addition.

The person you're replying to has multiple sources to defend their comment. It's not a big secret that antidepressants are overprescribed and extremely easy to obtain. Sure, they have their uses and may be life saving to some, but their use should also be questioned from time to time.

Re: Serotonin selectively influences moral judgment and behavior

#88

Post by PragmaticPulp »

aos wrote: post #43
kbenson wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not just slightly different. It can be extremely variable from person to person. Not just SSRIs. I had a very bad experience with Mucinex D (or DM?) about 12 years ago, the first time I tried it. I can only imagine it was what clinical depression is like. For two days (until I stopped taking because I was so scared) I lost all interest in my life. I wasn't interested in my young children, ow my wife, or watching an…

Mucinex DM has dextromethorphan[0] which can act as a non-selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor. [0]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dextromethorphan see section on dependence and withdrawal

Serotonin is only a small part of what it does. It can impact everything from NMDA to opioid receptors.

It’s not interchangeable with SSRIs, obviously.

Re: Serotonin selectively influences moral judgment and behavior

#89

Post by GeorgeTirebiter »

wincy wrote: post #33
mattgreenrocks wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same situation as you. SSRIs seemed mostly ineffective, or sometimes had crazy side effects (will never forget Effexor-induced zaps despite tapering off following the directions to the letter). Bupropion has been fantastic for me since I started and I wished I'd found it 20 years ago.

That’s great! Bupropion caused a psychotic episode for me maybe ten years ago. Most terrifying day of my life, when the razor blades were calling out to me telling me to cut myself. To be clear, I’ve never had anything like that happen before or since. My daughter spent 9 months in the NICU and got genetic testing for various drugs, with 1 being the baseline expected (I’m going off memory here) and 9 or 10 being “wtf…

Wow, sorry. Bupropion is an SNRI, not SSRI. SSRIs are 'dangerous' IMHO, except for the special cases mention here (suicide ideation, extreme non-functioning).

I would have hoped clinicians would start at the lowest possible dose, and titrate up. I've certainly heard of the "you need about xx mg, use this dose" first doses, tho.

To me, this is Yet Another reason one should never receive medical advice alone, especially when thinking is impaired. That trusted friend / partner needs to ask the hard questions of the prescribing clinician; but rules make any 3rd party except spouse difficult for adults.

Re: Serotonin selectively influences moral judgment and behavior

#90

Post by zwkrt »

symlinkk wrote: post #85
Ozzie_osman wrote: post #65

It's crazy how our brains and bodies are just a cocktail of hormones and neurotransmitters. Change that mix, and it can change the very nature of who we think we are. Things that you might associate with your very identity, like optimism/pessimism, ability to focus, moral judgment, how collaborative or generous you are, aggressiveness, all can be influenced by hormones or neurotransmitters.

Yes it brings up uncomfortable questions about free will. Like “why did he murder that guy? did he choose to do it or did the chemicals in his brain force him to?”

“Your honor, I claim that the real culprit here is the laws of physics and the initial conditions of the universe at the Big Bang.”
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