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Is Bitcoin Down or Just Me?

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Re: Is Bitcoin Down or Just Me?

#241

Post by notch656a »

iso1210 wrote: post #230
beaconstudios wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a meaningful service cost, it's just paid for by mining. Environmentally there's also a massive cost, one that is not offset by the benefits bitcoin brings - which is primarily financial speculation and scams. Cryptocurrency is probably one of the worst inventions in recent memory.

Bitcoin takes 200kWh per transaction. At current US energy pries of 13 cents, that's $26 per transaction.

The average transaction value made in bitcoin is $80k. A financial service cost of $26 on an $80k international transaction is amazingly good. And with something like litecoin goes down to $0.02

Re: Is Bitcoin Down or Just Me?

#242

Post by AlbertCory »

iso1210 wrote: post #239
AlbertCory wrote: post #92

No one gets their shoes shined anymore, but [1], [2]. In 15 years, everyone touting crypto now is going to be either: 1) bragging about how they got out before the wipeout 2) changing the subject [1] https://archive.fortune.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archiv... [2] https://work4btc.com/the-shoeshine-boy-in-1929-and-my-co-wor...

1) is dated 1996, the S&P started on 614 and ended on 766. It would never be as low as it was then. Had you put $1k in at the peak in 2000 then you'd be below water for 12 years, but by now 22 years later you'd have $3300. Had you instead dripped $50 in each year since 2000 you'd have $3500. If you'd have put that $1k in a bank returning around the fed funds rate, you'd have about $1400. Dripping it in would be about…

I'm not sure what your point is. Buying the whole market or a substantial part of it has always been a good strategy.

"Beating the market" is what "hot tips" are all about. "A fool and his money" etc. etc.

Re: Is Bitcoin Down or Just Me?

#243

Post by Jansen312 »

camjohnson26 wrote: post #43

For all the hate Bitcoin gets because it’s obviously in a bubble market, can we at least agree that it is an astounding engineering achievement that an anonymous individual and a small group of researchers were able to build a network capable of transacting billions of dollars of value with only 2 service incidents in 14 years? All without any meaningful service costs and no hacking of the network, despite huge incen…

The amazing part is they hash "no" work as proof of work to get rewarded with digital coin that contribute to global warming hastening "2012 movie" and we celebrate it as a monumental achievement! Maybe Thanos is right.

Re: Is Bitcoin Down or Just Me?

#244

Post by notch656a »

SantalBlush wrote: post #235
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People absolutely do use bitcoin mining for heating. It's just not yet popular enough, and it makes sense only in certain climates.

That's my point. It's not popular because it's not economically viable in many cases. So heating buildings is another thing that Bitcoin is supposed to improve, except it really doesn't.

Why do you think it would be less economically viable to use mining for rewards + heating rather than just rewards? It's both economically advantageous and arguably slightly less pollutive to offset energy consumption used for heating.

Re: Is Bitcoin Down or Just Me?

#245

Post by SantalBlush »

notch656a wrote: post #244
SantalBlush wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's my point. It's not popular because it's not economically viable in many cases. So heating buildings is another thing that Bitcoin is supposed to improve, except it really doesn't.

Why do you think it would be less economically viable to use mining for rewards + heating rather than just rewards? It's both economically advantageous and arguably slightly less pollutive to offset energy consumption used for heating.

Because professional Bitcoin miners--the ones who are actually getting rewards--are not using rigs in their homes. They make more money by using industrial-level setups, buildings dedicated to mining that are located where the energy, taxes, laws, etc. are most favorable. These miners are the ones making the actual money from Bitcoin, not the hobbyists running a home rig who never mine a single block before their hardware is ruined. Home rigs do not compete with industrial setups on cost, not even when taking heating into account.

"Smart heating" is just one more example of where Bitcoin in theory does not match Bitcoin in reality.

Re: Is Bitcoin Down or Just Me?

#246

Post by flatiron »

vmception wrote: post #203
flatiron wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

its not an argument against bitcoin at all. go walk into a starbucks with a gold bar. it certainly has value. they certainly want to give you coffee for value. it's just not the write medium. bitcoin is gold bars. not ready for retail but certainly ready for a hold of value. nothing wrong with that.

the point is that the user experience is not accurate so no rationale for it is relevant either many merchants take 0 confirmations with payment processors or use lightning network or use a faster blockchain

If you take 0 confirmations you will get what you deserve.

For the others I have no comment as they aren’t currently viable.

Re: Is Bitcoin Down or Just Me?

#247

Post by anderber »

veltas wrote: post #169
anderber wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cryptocurrency is probably one of the worst inventions in recent memory Keep in mind that not all Cryptocurrency use mining. Nano, for example, is zero fee, environmentally friendly coin that is incredibly fast. Bitcoin gets all the talk but there are some great and interesting tech out there. Get yourself a wallet ( https://natrium.io/ ) and I'll send you some so you can try it out. https://nano.org/

https://docs.nano.org/what-is-nano/overview/ > Every block must also contain a small, user-generated Proof-of-Work value which is a Quality-of-Service prioritization mechanism allowing occasional, average user transactions to process quickly and consistently. The PoW computation for a transaction typically takes a few seconds on a modern desktop CPU. Seems to me like this hasn't changed anything.

The proof of work is done on the user end, there are no miners.

Re: Is Bitcoin Down or Just Me?

#248

Post by anderber »

bestouff wrote: post #234
anderber wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cryptocurrency is probably one of the worst inventions in recent memory Keep in mind that not all Cryptocurrency use mining. Nano, for example, is zero fee, environmentally friendly coin that is incredibly fast. Bitcoin gets all the talk but there are some great and interesting tech out there. Get yourself a wallet ( https://natrium.io/ ) and I'll send you some so you can try it out. https://nano.org/

So you can't use nano without installing some proprietary software on a phone ? That doesn't look good ...

There are many wallets and ways to make a wallet, including open source. I just shared the easiest way, which happens to be open source: https://github.com/appditto/natrium_wallet_flutter

Re: Is Bitcoin Down or Just Me?

#249

Post by vmception »

flatiron wrote: post #246
vmception wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the point is that the user experience is not accurate so no rationale for it is relevant either many merchants take 0 confirmations with payment processors or use lightning network or use a faster blockchain

If you take 0 confirmations you will get what you deserve. For the others I have no comment as they aren’t currently viable.

Yeah no different than a merchants other electronic payment solutions except maybe being cheaper for the merchant

Re: Is Bitcoin Down or Just Me?

#250

Post by notch656a »

SantalBlush wrote: post #245
notch656a wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think it would be less economically viable to use mining for rewards + heating rather than just rewards? It's both economically advantageous and arguably slightly less pollutive to offset energy consumption used for heating.

Because professional Bitcoin miners--the ones who are actually getting rewards--are not using rigs in their homes. They make more money by using industrial-level setups, buildings dedicated to mining that are located where the energy, taxes, laws, etc. are most favorable. These miners are the ones making the actual money from Bitcoin, not the hobbyists running a home rig who never mine a single block before their har…

That's a fair point, but isn't your beef with externalities associated with electricity not electricity itself? Blaming bitcoin sound like whack-a-mole where you can blame video games, AI, whatever for wasting electricity. The real problem IMO is that electricity consumers create negative externalities, be it from making their home a bit too warm and comfy or from using a crypto-currency instead of a gold bar.
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