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Ask HN: How do you start contracting?

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Re: Ask HN: How do you start contracting?

#41
post #29

It depends what you mean by contracting - which can be anything from "an employee who gets no benefits so a bit more money" to freelancing. If you're looking for ongoing part-time contracting, I have successfully landed multiple contracting jobs by applying to places that were looking for full time work, for whom my skills were an exceptionally good fit, and saying "I know you weren't thinking of part-time remote con…

why do the employers prefer hiring rather than contracting?

Speaking as an engineer that sometimes wears a hiring manager hat. Full-time long term is typically preferred. On a complex product in a complex domain there can be a long learning curve. It’s very valuable to have people that stay for multiple years and were there when certain choices were made.

People have a different learning and onboarding speed, but it generally takes months for an engineering hire to “break even” and be able to pick up most tickets on their own. So we generally prefer people that stay longer.

That being said, there is also value to bringing in people with different backgrounds, experiences & perspectives. So sometimes freelancers or consultants can be good choice.

Re: Ask HN: How do you start contracting?

#42
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it mostly finding your own clients? I did a bit of asking around last year and I found several opportunities where companies have small average quality engineering teams who need someone to lead an effort in something like a product manager and engineering architect role. Those sounded interesting, though I did not follow up. My main fear is pay. Ideally, I'd like to be able to make at least $300/hr. I have no ide…

$300/hr is the same as $600K/year. As a manager, who are you going to pay that kind of rate to? Why would someone hire a contractor at that rate, when they could hire the top tier Google Engineers? $200-300/hr rates are usually for 'expertise' style inputs - it's where you have industry leading or arcane knowledge in your field, and you bill for your insight, which might just be a few hours. A lawyer who specializes…

$300/hr is more like $300K/year, if you follow the "overhead to a company is basically equivalent to salary" common wisdom. That assumes that the contracting is for fairly large numbers of hours on a fairly long term, otherwise "benchtime" can make that effectively much, much lower.

Source: Close to 20 years consulting at $150/hr.

Re: Ask HN: How do you start contracting?

#43
The “who is looking to be hired?” threads on HN has worked well for me. To position and price yourself: I’d start with looking on UpWork or similar platforms in your geo and position yourself competitively (I checked on Malt, a french Upwork alternative).

Re: Ask HN: How do you start contracting?

#44
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$300/hr is the same as $600K/year. As a manager, who are you going to pay that kind of rate to? Why would someone hire a contractor at that rate, when they could hire the top tier Google Engineers? $200-300/hr rates are usually for 'expertise' style inputs - it's where you have industry leading or arcane knowledge in your field, and you bill for your insight, which might just be a few hours. A lawyer who specializes…

My day job company pays upwards of $1000/hr to short-term contract leadership people. I guess it's really more consulting than contracting but the lines seem pretty blurry based on what I've seen. Based on what I've seen for senior/principal engineering contracting, I'd say $500/hr is completely realistic, so my goal of $300 feels realistic. Perhaps I'm in a weird sector of the industry or something, but I don't thin…

The 'key word' in your language that is a bit off is 'leadership'.

Yes, usually in a hierarchy, 'leaders' get paid more.

But consultants and contractors are not hired for 'leadership' roles, so I'm a bit confused by that.

I started a new project and our DB guy was young, we were unsure of ourselves, so we hired some Oracle expert to help with that and they were expensive. So 1 or 2 days consulting on our project.

It could have been $1K an hour for all I know, it doesn't matter.

For short bits of key insight, high rates are not uncommon.

Corporate Lawyers will charge $1K/hour - but even then that's going to go to their interns, associates, overhead as well - it's a 'business' not just a person.

Also note that those rates tend to grow exponentially pas a certain point: someone who specializes in international law for mining and gas, who is needed 'right now' because of a flare up between SNC Lavalin and the Peruvian government, can bill $10K/hour etc..

There actually isn't that much of a difference between 'consulting' and 'contracting' but the later usually implies 'work' as opposed to 'expertise'.

If you are providing very specific knowledge that the company really needs to move forward, and the terms are fairly clear that they need it, then you can start billing much higher than contract rates. The bigger the influence (i.e. if it's affecting a giant, $100M contract), then the bigger the rate.

But for 'general leadership' ... that's a much harder thing to put into dollars.

Re: Ask HN: How do you start contracting?

#45
Finding your first client is without doubt the hardest part. After that you’ll have more confidence, a reference, and possibly some word of mouth running ahead of you.

A frequent recommendation I’ve heard is to make your current employer your first client. I’ve never been in a position to pull that off, but can at least verify that it’s not the _only_ way to start. I’ve had leads off of Craigslist, though haven’t closed them. I’ve had successful matches from the monthly HN Freelancer thread. Where most of my client contacts have started, though, is conversations within my network—build initially from W2 jobs and helping run a programming language meetup, and then building atop engagements with clients and agencies.

Zach Burt’s “The Software Engineer’s Guide to Freelance Consulting” (https://www.abebooks.com/book-search/title/software-engineer...) is a pretty good reference; there should be ebook copies out there for a reasonable price.

Re: Ask HN: How do you start contracting?

#46
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My day job company pays upwards of $1000/hr to short-term contract leadership people. I guess it's really more consulting than contracting but the lines seem pretty blurry based on what I've seen. Based on what I've seen for senior/principal engineering contracting, I'd say $500/hr is completely realistic, so my goal of $300 feels realistic. Perhaps I'm in a weird sector of the industry or something, but I don't thin…

Holy jeezus, I was worried I was flexing by mentioning my $200/hr rate. Dude or dudette, if you feel that’s realistic, the half Jew side of me is rooting for you. Godspeed. $1,000/hr, what the fuck. I don’t think I’ve dropped a legit WTF on HN before. That’s a 40hr a week rate for at least a month, right? Otherwise you’re probably using the wrong comparison to what you want. But still… sure wouldn’t take many hours a…

pro tip: if you see a big name approaching you, add an extra 0 to your rate and see what happens

Re: Ask HN: How do you start contracting?

#47
Contracting is not easy but it can pay more. I find finding clients the easy part but all the surrounding stuff is nuanced and complicated (as soon as you start contracting you are literally essentially running your own business).

Before jumping ship (if you decide to), pay close attention to the no-compete clauses etc in your current employment contract.

It's pretty easy to get contracting gigs for technical work - development, solution architecture, etc. A lot of companies are super happy to outsource risk. It generally costs more to place a human at a physical desk in an office than outsource to a contractor who brings their own devices and pays their own taxes and has their own public liability insurance. As long as you can show someone a portfolio of work that impresses them, and takes the problem off their desk, you'll find work.

There is no magic to networking. A lot of the finding work process just boils down to hanging out with the right people at the right time. Go to industry events. Cook BBQ's for coworkers. Remember the birthdays of coworkers' past and present. Put yourself in front of people who might need you in the future and make sure they remember you fondly. This is a decades-long process.

Pricing-wise just find your average local wage, add taxes and benefits, and that's your centre point to aim for. Bump it up a bit if you are actually a high achiever.

Honestly whether it's better to be contracted or employed, I think it's a personal preference. I can't stand the corporate buy-in that comes from being an employee, and value my independence. It burns me greatly at times when I find myself broke and scrambling to find a gig, so if it's assurance you're after then full time employment really is a good thing, but for me being able to jot down that I won't agree to my IP being owned by the company that's hiring me today is a pretty powerful incentive not to become a standard employee.

Re: Ask HN: How do you start contracting?

#48
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I did a bit of asking around last year and I found several opportunities where companies have small average quality engineering teams who need someone to lead an effort in something like a product manager and engineering architect role. Interesting. It’s not exactly common for companies to want contractors to be in leadership roles. Leadership roles generally warrant full-time employees who can be more invested in…

Those companies were willing to hire me. Hopefully this doesn't arrogant, but those companies can't hire someone of my caliber. They're mediocre companies that can only hire average/mediocre people. I wouldn't want to join a company like that full time, but I could see it being fun to hop in and help them out with a big project. For example one company was a media company that you've probably heard of. For their next…

You may have to prove yourself by building your own successful product or a stellar reputation of doing similar heavy lifting at other companies before a company will trust you with that kind of role as a freelance gig.

There are folks who become “fixers” but they have a long history of being fixers and have usually worked in multiple different orgs achieving similar results regardless of org structure, strategy and cruft. It sounds like you are itching for such a career, but it requires starting somewhere. Many fixers also take full time leadership positions at the company for a period of time and then move on once the problem is fixed. The leadership position also gives you direct authority over the process and resources, which you will need as both likely need to be tweaked. That the project is failing is likely a combination of poor process and some bad apples, and both usually need fixing. It’s rarely that “everyone on the engineering team is incompetent.” Without the leader title you will not have the organizational authority to fire/hire or change process.

You may want to consider the offer of the leadership position seriously: The company sees the problem within itself, sees you as a fixer and is willing to hire you to do your magic. This is how you build your reputation in this market space. Give yourself three to five years to implement the changes, then move on to a different company with a different problem to fix. It’s also a great way to find out if you’re truly as awesome as you think you are :).

Re: Ask HN: How do you start contracting?

#49
post #35

Having done contract work for ~20 years without using any platforms, I would say start locally to find clients. It'll be harder now due to Covid but with no network or online presence beforehand no one will know you exist. The long haul would be to start blogging about what you plan to do contract work for and build up an audience but this may take years to materialize. Initially I wouldn't worry about business cards…

how do i find anyone if i don’t live in a big city and don’t know anyone?

why would anyone read my blog?

Re: Ask HN: How do you start contracting?

#50
One thing that I don’t see brought up enough is the different kinds of engagements a freelance developer could target:

I suspect for many of us, the easiest to find would be what’s called “staff augmentation” - basically you get inserted into an existing team in some capacity, except you’re on a contract basis so not tied down, get to negotiate your terms, don’t get employee benefits etc etc

Such engagements are often quite stable and long term (some companies are even willing to make them open ended!)

The downside is that you have less leverage to set high rates (although I’ve been able to get pretty satisfactory ones), you don’t have as much flexibility because you’re expected to be a regular member of the team and work 9-5ish hours, and you don’t get to escape the corporate/teamwork setting as much (if that was what you were looking for going freelance)

The upside is that you have to find new clients way less often, but still have the freedom to switch around as often as you want if you get bored/want to hunt for better rates etc

Now what most ppl think of freelancing is doing a single project and then either finding another one with the client or needing to find another client (eg this is most of the work on upwork)

In my short consulting career I’ve not found such work (tho haven’t been looking either) and frankly am still nervous on whether I can deliver well in such a capacity without the support of anyone else as it may. And obviously you’ll have to hunt for clients way more often with such projects.

If you reply with your email I’m happy to answer any questions or help if I think I can

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