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I am a New York City public high school student. The situation is beyond control

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Re: I am a New York City public high school student. The situation is beyond control

#681

Post by rdtwo »

labster wrote: post #404
sylens wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't fault any schools for struggling from March 2020 to June 2020, being thrown into the pandemic and remote learning with no warning. But I was absolutely astonished to see that most administrators took the summer of 2020 off, assuming that everybody would be back in school that fall and things would be normal. They wasted several months of time that could've been spent planning contingencies and how remote lear…

Everyone in June 2020 was too busy assuming the best case scenario to plan for disruption. I never really understood the human capacity for self-delusion until 2020. I knew we’d have two years of lockdowns in February 2020, unless we lucked into a drug that treated it (despite not having a drug for SARS-CoV-1). Even the logistics for distributing a vaccine is hard, and takes months to set up. I have no idea how peopl…

That’s just how American administrators work. The same thing happens at my company.

Re: I am a New York City public high school student. The situation is beyond control

#682

Post by kcplate »

CogitoCogito wrote: post #358
kcplate wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think if the covid vaccines managed to have a MMR level (90%+) preventive effect against symptomatic infection rather than 20% (I can’t find where I read that stat, it might be wrong, but I don’t think by much) against symptomatic infection, you would find less skepticism in the existing covid vaccines. At this stage, despite being fully vaccinated and boosted, I absolutely expect to be exposed to and symptomatic f…

What do you mean by "skepticism in the existing covid vaccines"? Are you saying that people are disapointed that the vaccines aren't better at preventing disease and spread? I'm pretty sure that everyone falls into that category. But is there anything better available? Is there any better strategy than trying to continue to improve the vaccines and do more research hoping to someday get a handle on this? If we compar…

I mean that when you advertise that something is going to do a thing (end the disease; prevent them from catching it), encouraging people to get the vaccine because of those benefits. Then the reality is discovered to be that it doesn’t do any of those things, but it does provide a milder experience…and oh by the way, and that efficacy only lasts a few months, so go get another booster dose ASAP.

That makes people skeptical.

Right now I know probably 5-6x the number of vaccinated people who have had Covid post vaccination than people who had it prior to the vaccine being available. I know unvaccinated people who have never had Covid, and vaccinated people who have had it twice…post vaccination.

Am I vaccinated, yes. Am I skeptical of the existing vaccines to prevent me from getting Covid and ending the pandemic, yes.

Re: I am a New York City public high school student. The situation is beyond control

#683

Post by peatmoss »

herbst wrote: post #661
astrange wrote: post #637

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes it is. School, along with the other things it does, is a public daycare service for children aged 5-18. That's one of the main reasons public school is good.

That is a POV thing. Where I am it is even considered weird that the US sees food a responsibility of educational services.

Two reasons for schools to provide food:

- Students are generally compelled to be proximate to educational services for long stretches of time. Logistics of not coupling them would be inefficient.

- Students don't learn effectively when they are chronically hungry. Providing education to hungry students isn't maximizing society's investment in these comparatively expensive services.

- Bonus reason: for many students, school is the only institution they have significant contact with, and therefore nobody else is feeding them. Feeding kids is the Right and Moral thing to do.

Re: I am a New York City public high school student. The situation is beyond control

#684

Post by kcplate »

Glyptodon wrote: post #443
kcplate wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I agree that criminalization of leaving home for the unvaccinated gets more appealing by the day. Don’t recall anyone in the thread suggesting criminalization (except you), so it’s pretty strange that you brought it up. Perhaps that is appealing to you, but it sure isn’t appealing to me. In fact it is so abhorrent an idea to me that I am pretty much open to anything that would prevent such totalitarianism from happ…

Obviously it's too late for it to matter and that was a bit of hyperbole. But I also think it's fair to say that anyone who insists on doing nothing and acting like COVID is a complete scam, vaccines are a complete scam, masks are complete scam, etc., is basically behaving pretty much criminally.

I’m thrice vaccinated and think masks are the biggest scam out there. It’s a worthless political virtue signal that gives people a false sense of security.

Go ahead and lock me up…

Re: I am a New York City public high school student. The situation is beyond control

#685

Post by danenania »

lokar wrote: post #545
danenania wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering there are immunosuppressed people who can’t get vaccinated, and that covid is unlikely to ever go away, are you saying that we should continue with covid restrictions forever?

We could at least manage things so hospitals are not overwhelmed. Lots of people are dieing simply because they are swamped. Also, there are several promising therapies that should help this population. Even a few months for them to ramp up availability will help a lot.

Ok, that is understandable. When making arguments like this, I think it would be good for people to say what their criteria for completely ending restrictions are (if any).

It seems like the vast majority agree that keeping restrictions forever is too extreme, but many of the covid-conservative arguments I see imply keeping restrictions forever, because they are based on factors that are unlikely to change in the foreseeable future (like immunosuppressed people + endemic covid).

The same goes for logic that also implies we should also be masking, social distancing, closing schools, etc. for influenza (which, again, I believe the vast majority of people would reject as too extreme).

Re: I am a New York City public high school student. The situation is beyond control

#686

Post by kgarten »

timr wrote: post #425
darth_avocado wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will be year 3 of covid and this is 100% the fault of the same people who have created every other problem in the education system: the administrators. There is no perfect way to open schools, that much is certain after looking at other countries. But looking at the state of things, it doesn’t even seem like people are trying. Japan has students come in on alternate days, so that the school can operate at 50% capa…

> Japan has students come in on alternate days, so that the school can operate at 50% capacity. Mask mandates, social distancing and temperature checks are enforced strictly. Citation? I am familiar with Japan's national Covid policies, and I have heard nothing of this. In general, Japan allows the prefectures to make their own decisions, and for issues like this, prefectures issue requests , not mandates. This paper…

It's common practice in the schools and universities in Japan to operate on 50 % capacity if the infection rate is high. There are strict mask mandates, social distancing and temperature checks are enforced.

Knowledge source: I'm a professor at a University in Tokyo. Nobody can enter campus without a mask and temperature check (not even me, the door to my floor has a facial recognition /thermal check). Social distancing is also enforced by teachers and staff. There is a max student cap for each room (that his about 30 % of the maximum capacity).

For schools: several of my friends have kids attending elementary school in Tokyo.

Yes, there is a lot of orientalism going on hackernews. lol.

https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20220107_37/

Re: I am a New York City public high school student. The situation is beyond control

#687

Post by BowBun »

xattt wrote: post #42
detaro wrote: post #3

Has any country made noticeable progress in improving the situation for schooling (EDIT: during covid waves) compared to lets say 18 months ago? Here in Germany the mantra seems to be "keep the schools running at all costs!" - except if "costs" means spending anything or preparing anything. So we don't have meaningful improvements done to schools, still don't have universal setups for remote or hybrid schooling, any…

I’ve got a kindergartener doing remote learning. The school system has adopted Google Suite as their platform(1). Default setup is a Chromebook. Format is pretty standard (recorded morning message and various activities throughout the day). A couple of live sessions are planned, with the class broken up into two groups to reduce the hectic video calls. Return to school is planned in two weeks. Testing before attendin…

Honestly the fact that Google got entrenched even more (or Zoom) is kinda scary to me. A few years ago it was noted that Google was basically giving away tech for free to schools so that they could embed themselves and eventually start squeezing money out of the education system (this happens internationally).

With Covid, everything kind of got forced onto schools that weren't technically prepared. I'm afraid of what costs we'll pay when our education system is also owned (via tech) by private industry.

Re: I am a New York City public high school student. The situation is beyond control

#688

Post by rdtwo »

herbst wrote: post #661
astrange wrote: post #637

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes it is. School, along with the other things it does, is a public daycare service for children aged 5-18. That's one of the main reasons public school is good.

That is a POV thing. Where I am it is even considered weird that the US sees food a responsibility of educational services.

The thing is that school acts as child care for 60-70% of the work day and it makes it not very viable to offer alternative services for the other 30% as there are not enough hours remaining to offer full time work.

Re: I am a New York City public high school student. The situation is beyond control

#689

Post by pezzana »

autarch wrote: post #268

Freddie de Boer just wrote something on his Substack about this - https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/many-kids-dont-have-a-w... The quick takeaway is that school is that for the most vulnerable kids, school is about a lot more than education. Taking school away from those kids can be much more damaging than many people realize. It seems to me like that right strategy would be to just say something like: We encourag…

This attitude is a major reason why public education is so utterly messed up in the US. All of the social and mental work that should be done elsewhere is simply not done. Time after time, the schools (and police) are called on as the last line of defense for a failing society.

It's not working. The additional strain on schools has turned the mission of public education into a series of brush fires in which staff and administrators just lurch from one crisis to another. The unequal way that education gets funded means that some districts see much more of this than others. But the problem is spreading.

Teachers are not trained to function as warehousers for youth. Nor are they given the resources to serve the role you and far too many parents want them to serve.

When the schools fail there is literally nothing behind them. They're the end of the line. This is the point where all the chickens come home to roost and society starts to fail, one kid at a time. The pandemic should be a wake up call. It doesn't look like it will be.

Re: I am a New York City public high school student. The situation is beyond control

#690

Post by autarch »

pezzana wrote: post #689
autarch wrote: post #268

Freddie de Boer just wrote something on his Substack about this - https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/many-kids-dont-have-a-w... The quick takeaway is that school is that for the most vulnerable kids, school is about a lot more than education. Taking school away from those kids can be much more damaging than many people realize. It seems to me like that right strategy would be to just say something like: We encourag…

This attitude is a major reason why public education is so utterly messed up in the US. All of the social and mental work that should be done elsewhere is simply not done. Time after time, the schools (and police) are called on as the last line of defense for a failing society. It's not working. The additional strain on schools has turned the mission of public education into a series of brush fires in which staff and…

> This attitude is a major reason why public education is so utterly messed up in the US. All of the social and mental work that should be done elsewhere is simply not done. Time after time, the schools (and police) are called on as the last line of defense for a failing society.

I completely agree. But we can't fix this in the next few weeks, so for now keeping schools open for those who need it is the thing to do.

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