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Pentagon and CIA shaped thousands of Hollywood movies into effective propaganda

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Re: Pentagon and CIA shaped thousands of Hollywood movies into effective propaganda

#561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would agree that for the (majority parts of) populations of the main countries that is likely the case. I certainly am happy to have grown up in Western not Eastern Germany. That said things get murkier beyond that quite quickly. I'm not sure I would have preferred to grow up as a black teenager in e.g. Baltimore over being a teenager in Eastern Germany and I certainly would have preferred to grow up in Estonia in…

And you would almost certainly prefer to be a black teenager in Baltimore or a Guatemalan over a Ukrainian under the USSR.

I think this would depend on time period. 1930s sure, later I'm not convinced (to be honest I don't know enough about the period after the 30s in Ukraine). For example during the Guatemalan "Civil War" between 150 000 and 200 000 people were killed and disappeared (~25% of that number). That is a lot of people for a population of 17 M.

Re: Pentagon and CIA shaped thousands of Hollywood movies into effective propaganda

#562
post #74
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Hollywood is lot less subtle now at trying to push political propaganda than it was ever then, except that wokeism is the theme of the day. In some instances it has completely taken over the plot, like in the last season of Fargo, to the point of becoming some sort of unwatcheable catechism.

There's an additional very blatant theme I've been seeing of "science and engineers are the coolest!" that cropped up in, e.g. The Tomorrow War and another recent military themed US movie whose name I forget. They made me wonder if the army is fretting about its access to STEM skills.

Its a major problem for armed forces have people with advanced skills are not going to work for NCO pay which is what the higher ups think we are.

Re: Pentagon and CIA shaped thousands of Hollywood movies into effective propaganda

#563

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tony Stark is a "next level" rich scientist, engineer/inventor, and ladies man. His IT related sides are incidental at best. The only recent and decent "IT guy" series was Mr. Robot and the differences from any other field are obvious. The main "IT guy"-character is presented as socially dysfunctional. The supporting IT-people are tiny little gears turning in their cubicles. Military - always fighting in the harshest…

On NCIS everyone is a superhuman at whatever they do. In addition to the traditional super-cop there's the super-forensics genius and the super-hacker from MIT. I think it's just the kind of show more than the kind of character. And people who watch (and write) hero shows are probably older generations and far less aware of modern job roles beyond the old professions. But TV always veers off into personal drama, pres…

Well I kind of assume that the team is an Elite one - though the two people typing at the same time makes me cringe

Re: Pentagon and CIA shaped thousands of Hollywood movies into effective propaganda

#564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That must have changed - in the novels he was a former Marine who had made a bit of money in finance and then gone into academia.

He's depicted as more of a nerdy relatable "analyst". Truly the common man's CIA operative.

Ex marine who was invalided out I seem to recall

Re: Pentagon and CIA shaped thousands of Hollywood movies into effective propaganda

#565

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On NCIS everyone is a superhuman at whatever they do. In addition to the traditional super-cop there's the super-forensics genius and the super-hacker from MIT. I think it's just the kind of show more than the kind of character. And people who watch (and write) hero shows are probably older generations and far less aware of modern job roles beyond the old professions. But TV always veers off into personal drama, pres…

Well I kind of assume that the team is an Elite one - though the two people typing at the same time makes me cringe

You mean because the show is about them? In the scheme of things they seem to be basically rank-and-file detectives.

All the science/tech stuff they do tends to make me cringe. A hair from a nearly-extinct field mouse found in just one park? whatever. I guess that beats big "revelations" you can see coming a mile away.

Re: Pentagon and CIA shaped thousands of Hollywood movies into effective propaganda

#566

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well I kind of assume that the team is an Elite one - though the two people typing at the same time makes me cringe

You mean because the show is about them? In the scheme of things they seem to be basically rank-and-file detectives. All the science/tech stuff they do tends to make me cringe. A hair from a nearly-extinct field mouse found in just one park? whatever. I guess that beats big "revelations" you can see coming a mile away.

There's more than one grade of Special Agent and Gibbs deputised for the Director at one point.

So it's a stretch but as the team was designated Major Case Team i could see it working

Re: Pentagon and CIA shaped thousands of Hollywood movies into effective propaganda

#567
post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are correct. Just like the US was targeting military installations in Moscow, etc that had millions of civilians and USSR was targeting US cities that had millions of civilians. I'm just saying that it was not actually something that people "found out" after the cold war and it wasn't specific to the Baltic nations nor the US or USSR. All nuclear capable superpowers had set potential targets which would have kill…

Not just Moscow. Also Warsaw. And Cracow. And so many other cities in countries that believed US is an ally in their struggle, who'll be aiming to liberate them from USSR. Not turn their most beutiful cities into cinders. https://futureoflife.org/background/us-nuclear-targets/

. Usa did play a big role in liberating eastern Europe from communism and at the same time in Poland we're all aware of brutal reality that a war between west and Russia will leave Poland in ashes.

Re: Pentagon and CIA shaped thousands of Hollywood movies into effective propaganda

#568

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it originated there, though I guess it didn't last very long. It's a common rhetorical tactic used by partisans on the right - use the other side's own terminology to describe it, always with a tone of disgust, and repeat it until the sound of it becomes grating. "Social Justice Warrior" was similarly exclusively used by people describing their own political convictions when I first encountered the term.

I'd say both sides make the other side's terminology into epithets. But mostly only the left seems to take it personally and stop using the word. Meanwhile the right will continue to embrace being labelled by what the left treats as epithets. Maybe it has something to do with individualism which is a sort of rebellious mindset on the right.

I just realised an interesting symmetry - The right is more successful at loading the left's own terminology with negative connotations, while the left is more successful at adjusting definitions of shared language. I wonder whether this has something to do with the implicit communication styles of the respective tribes... Any theories?

Re: Pentagon and CIA shaped thousands of Hollywood movies into effective propaganda

#569

> We know that the Pentagon knows this, and what military officials scheme and plot as a result of knowing this, because of the work of relentless researchers making use of the Freedom of Information Act. Any links?

FOIA in full effect: https://www.spyculture.com/documents/

Re: Pentagon and CIA shaped thousands of Hollywood movies into effective propaganda

#570

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is pretty interesting but I don't think the evidence is very strong. Being the leader of the Canadian Green Party is not "elite". Green parties around the world are going through these upheavals only because they allowed and encouraged this wokeism, that's what they want and that's what they get. Whereas look at the actual positions of political power. Biden/Harris -- they're both horrific in many wokeness metri…

I think the disagreement here is mostly about the meaning of the word 'Elite'. The way I use it I'm thinking more of the most influential 10% than 1%. People who have it better than most citizens, but their position is precarious. So more the democratic party insiders Biden/Harris bullied into tilting the odds against Sanders/Yang/Gabbard than just Biden/Harris themselves. Of course, my theory does require that Biden…

> I think the disagreement here is mostly about the meaning of the word 'Elite'.

We are. I have no doubt that "woke" is used by lots of people to attack one another. It's a great tool that divides people against one another and insulates the ruling class.

>The way I use it I'm thinking more of the most influential 10% than 1%. People who have it better than most citizens, but their position is precarious. So more the democratic party insiders Biden/Harris bullied into tilting the odds against Sanders/Yang/Gabbard than just Biden/Harris themselves. Of course, my theory does require that Biden/Harris spent a long time in the trenches honing their skills in this kind of dominance struggle. If you don't think they thrived in that environment for so long through being better at earlier versions of woke competition I'd be curious what you think the selection mechanism was. Another thing you might not have noticed about Woke Competition is that it's not about being a perfect person or having no skeletons in your closet. One of the presuppositions is that we all have something undeserving about us and need to keep that fact constantly in mind.

I'm not sure what you mean. Biden and Harris simply weren't attacked with any of the woke stuff which they both have ample material including support for Israel! It's not that other people didn't want to be president or other big donors did not want others to be president.

> I disagree with the idea that even the kind of elites you mean aren't affected though, and I'd point to the example of Andrew Cuomo for evidence. It's very plausible that Andrew Cuomo's calls in the early days of covid cost a number of people their lives, that's all the reason any party would need to remove a prominent member. But when he was removed it was through a set of sexual assault allegations that someone had clearly been sitting on for some time. When infighting did erupt, woke competition was the weapon of choice.

Well firing someone for sexual assault is not woke. Covering up the sexual crimes so it can be used as leverage and/or blackmail while at the same time contgratulating yourselves about how you're the hero of women and denouncing others is woke, but it's that hypocrisy. Using blackmail and little black books to sink politicians who outlive their usefulness is just standard operating procedure in politics and predates woke by centuries.

> As for my last paragraph, that was in small part assertive optimism, in large part a rhetorical device, and just a touch of sarcasm. People like you after all don't need convincing there's a problem with woke competition, it was addressed to people who buy into it. That woke competition is only intended to divide the underclasses can be easily dismissed as the author hiding from his racial privilege, that it has that effect unintentionally because of unconscious privilege by the rich... the rules of the game practically require believing that.

I didn't get that. It sounded like you thought woke was good (selects for qualities you want in your elites, only needs small tweak to improve), and that you thought your elites are interested in your interests ('which they will remedy with all haste once it is brought to their attention').

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