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James Webb is fully deployed

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Re: James Webb is fully deployed

#231
post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not true. The potential for surprises gets smaller and smaller the more data you collect. The Webb will produce surprises at first because it is able to make new kinds of observations that were not possible before, but after a while that new data will be used to improve our models and subsequent observations in the same regime will (almost certainly) be less surprising as a result.

> The potential for surprises gets smaller and smaller the more data you collect. Mathematically, you are quite correct. But do you really believe that with one little ole' telescope pointed at the freakin' universe you're going to reach a significant point of diminishing returns? It's like saying if you invent the first microscope, and discover bacteria, why bother with another one?

> It's like saying if you invent the first microscope, and discover bacteria, why bother with another one?

Exactly, why bother with discovering millions of bacterias with 20 copies of the same microscope if for the same cost can build 5 different microscopes allowing discoveries of thousands of fungi, viruses, protozoans, algae, plankton etc.

In astronomy there are multiple bands to observe - gamma rays, x-rays, EUV, UV, visible light, near-IR, far-IR, short/medium/long radio waves. There are also gravitational wave observatories and special instruments like spectrographs and coronagraphs for imaging exoplanets. Every of those observations needs highly specialised instrument but brings a lot of new insight about what is happening in the universe.

Most of Hubble's groundbreaking discoveries came in first 10 years of its operation. Less in next 10 years. Even less in third decade. In fact its final service mission had been cancelled once but was reinstated once it was clear that JWST will be massively delayed and risky. For combined cost of Compton (gamma/high x-rays), Chandra (low x-rays) and Spitzer (infrared) we most likely could have built and launched another Hubble, but there was no point as those 3 generated much more valuable science than another Hubble ever would.

Re: James Webb is fully deployed

#232
post #23

One of the big numbers that been thrown around is that JWST has 344 single points of failure in its mission. Now that deployment has been completed, is there somewhere that lists how many of those points we have passed?

AFAIK no single mirror segment failure would destroy the entire telescope, so the only one still on the future is the L2 insertion burn. As always, it's useful to post this link: https://jwst.nasa.gov/content/webbLaunch/whereIsWebb.html

Since L2 is an unstable equilibrium, won’t there also need to be routine adjustments throughout the mission?

Re: James Webb is fully deployed

#233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the benefits of a second one would be marginal compared to the benefits of the first one. This can't be true. The benefit of the JWST is the observations it can make Two JWSTs can make twice as many observations as one, so it provides twice the benefit. In some sense there is a diminishing return in that the most important observations will be attempted first, and and over time the average observation will be less…

JWST was built to see in IR to help us get answers to a set of important questions. The best known one being trying to elucidate the question around the rate of expansion of the universe. We hope to get some answer by looking at objects much further away in space and time with the JWST and getting new estimates for the expansion rate. Something we cannot do today. You don't need two telescopes to do that, you just ne…

JWST is a general purpose telescope, and the by far most powerful ever built.

It should, if working as intended, be able to observe anything in the sky, and get the most detailed pictures ever seen of them. In wavelengths not seen before.

Without doing the math, there are probably billions of interesting things to point it at, most of which it will never get around to.

Re: James Webb is fully deployed

#234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Won't it be pretty close to earth in its final position at L2? If so, is there no chance that there will be future missions to do service to it? If so, maybe we can get a photo of if then?

Maybe Hubble could take a snapshot or two?

With Hubbles's highest resolution optics, the JWST will be about one-tenth the size of a pixel.

Re: James Webb is fully deployed

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not entirely true. Any reasonably complex system will almost certainly have single points of failure, including airliners. Those single points of failures might be very unlikely, but they are still there. E.g. what if the front fell off?

It is entirely true. Source: I worked on 757 flight controls design for 3 years. > what if the front fell off? All structural components are redundant and have redundant attachments. The wing spars are doubled, for example.

There are certainly single points of failure in airliner design. An example that springs to mind is the stabilizer trim jackscrew. There are supporting systems which try to mitigate the risk of failure or the likelihood of failure, but bottom line, if the jackscrew fails, there is no redundancy. You've lost stab trim, potentially making the situation unrecoverable. Of course Alaska 261 is one such example of a jackscrew failure.

Re: James Webb is fully deployed

#236
post #23

One of the big numbers that been thrown around is that JWST has 344 single points of failure in its mission. Now that deployment has been completed, is there somewhere that lists how many of those points we have passed?

>344 single points of failure How can a system have more that one single point of failure?

In your body, the brain, heart and lungs are all single points of failure.

If either one fails, you die.

Re: James Webb is fully deployed

#237
post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has solar panels, so it can't be in shadow. IIUC the advantage of earth-sun L2 is it's away from the light and shadow of the earth and moon, while being reachable by radio year round.

I didn't check for sources again earlier, but this NASA article [1] explains it. Yea shadow was the wrong word and doesn't actually apply because of the relative size of the sun and earth. However the L2 point is by definition in a straight line Sun -> Earth -> L2, so if the sun would be a single point light source that would block the sun and place the JWST in the permanent shadow thrown by the earth. The point is a…

It's orbiting L2, not at it. It will have basically constant sunshine, which is good - solar panels provide all its power. (no RTG)

Re: James Webb is fully deployed

#238
What I love about this project is that I had an active worry about its success, very few things in life inspire that kind of emotion. Well done to all involved, a true lifetime achievement. Can't wait for the images!

Re: James Webb is fully deployed

#239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK no single mirror segment failure would destroy the entire telescope, so the only one still on the future is the L2 insertion burn. As always, it's useful to post this link: https://jwst.nasa.gov/content/webbLaunch/whereIsWebb.html

Since L2 is an unstable equilibrium, won’t there also need to be routine adjustments throughout the mission?

Yes.

Those adjustments, as well as unloading of the reaction wheels used to position JWST, and the fuel burns reqiured for them, are the principle determinants of the JWAT's lifespan, estimated at 10 years.

Nasa have lowballed such estimates for numerous missions in the past (Hubble and numerous Mars lander and rover missions come to mind), and it's possible JWST will exceed the planned lifetime, potentially by a wide margin. Initial indications are that the Ariane V insertion should have spared much potential fuel use in orbital corrections and insertion.

I expect the space geek set will have speculation, hopefully reasonably informed, on this in the not-too-distant future.

Re: James Webb is fully deployed

#240
post #169

No mention of ESA again, looks like it is solely NASA project, which it is not. Shame.

To be fair ESA contributed only with ~10% of total budget, and I guess much of that was the rocket.

I don’t see how that’s fair.

If that’s insignificant, why invite them? If that’s significant, why not mention them?

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