31–40 of 332 posts
(2020) See lively discussion from last time: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23062072
Systemd, ten years later: a historical and technical retrospective - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23062072 - May 2020 (432 comments)
and:
Systemd, 10 years later: a historical and technical retrospective - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23204666 - May 2020 (59 comments)
Systemd pissed off many people. For me and most users, the transition was fully imperceptible. With the difference that systemctl tools seem to work better for what it does than the many sparse different tools it replaced.
it's kind of like locked bootloaders and pentalobe screwdrivers for organizing a unix system where most users were used to easy to inspect and modify scripts and single purpose programs . yes, it's still open source, but modifications and inspection are far more complicated creating a much higher barrier to entry. in the earlier days when it was still buggy, even linus himself was screaming about not being able to ea…
Personally, I was more of a fan of upstart then systemd, but both were a massive improvement over sysvinit in terms of offering an actual interface with abstractions for the things you wanted to do. This is again from the perspective of a user, but that's where (in my opinion) most of the cost/benefit was anyway.
(2020) See lively discussion from last time: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23062072
Of all the topics for which we do not need dupes, this one is a perfect example. Don't people use HN's search tool?
(but also, it's true, people tend not to use HN search before posting)
https://www.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/4lzxs3/why_did_a... quote: "What most systemd critics consider "bloat", I consider necessary complexity to solve a complex problem generically. " endquote
I don't want to hear anything about stable or production systems or debugging from arch maintainers. Every so often I forget the journalctl and coredumpctl command line flags and have to google how to do basic tasks.
[1] https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/73002
EDIT: and before someone asks me why i'm using it, it's because i lke tinkering and for the most part i can deal with these "outages" on my laptop.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
It did start it. For example the k3s process did start a container registry, but it did not stop it. I thought one of the points of systemd was that it would reap parentless processes
It does exactly what the configuration tells it to do. At one point some distributions accidentally configured the sshd or cron unit to do that. People were a bit surprised when restarting sshd or cron killed every single background child process. See https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd.kil... Not to mention if k3s is just managing containers running under docker or containerd, those processes ar…
https://www.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/4lzxs3/why_did_a... quote: "What most systemd critics consider "bloat", I consider necessary complexity to solve a complex problem generically. " endquote
I use archlinux as a daily driver, but it breaks far more randomly than gentoo ever did for me. Archlinux's bugzilla is full of random breakages that happen at random system updates. Here's a random python bug that been happening, cost me a couple of hours to debug and for now I don't update python until they get around fixing it[1]. The fix? Download an older python version(not too old since that would break everyth…
I am old enough to remember that problems with systemd were less technical and more political. People didn't like the way systemd developers pushed the community to adopt systemd, specially when they asked for 3rd party developers to make systemd a hard dependency. Unfortunately,people don't remember this today, and think users resisted to systemd adoption only because they didn't like systemd.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
it's kind of like locked bootloaders and pentalobe screwdrivers for organizing a unix system where most users were used to easy to inspect and modify scripts and single purpose programs . yes, it's still open source, but modifications and inspection are far more complicated creating a much higher barrier to entry. in the earlier days when it was still buggy, even linus himself was screaming about not being able to ea…
I have to hard disagree on this one. As someone who had half a foot in sysvinit, half in upstart, and half in systemd (don't try to do math with those numbers), sysvinit was always the hardest to use by wide margin. It was ridiculously complicated to get anything nontrivial to work. It was error prone, and the number of corner cases you had to think about was extreme. And the worst part was I kept having to relearn i…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
It did start it. For example the k3s process did start a container registry, but it did not stop it. I thought one of the points of systemd was that it would reap parentless processes
Depending on the container runtime in use (containerd, crio), a separate process is managing and running those container processes (so k3s is telling that process what to do, but doesn’t “own” the containers). Also, modern container runtimes interface directly with systemd to launch transient units (think systemd services but without on disk config), so restarting a cri-o for example won’t restart those processes. Th…
It's not as bad as at first feared. Views here are along the usual lines; for many when there's an issue either it's something that's fixable inhouse (init scripts) or needs a support contract. Having said that, personally (old school) I lost 2 or 3 hours yesterday due to not realising systemd was changing things I changed for a reason.
>I lost 2 or 3 hours yesterday due to not realising systemd was changing things I changed for a reason. This is one of my go-to reasons when people ask me why systemd is bad. Once it overrode power settings I had configured in xfce-power-manager. Mainly I wanted the lid close to do nothing on AC power and to sleep on battery. It started sleeping for everything after an update once. I think in the end I couldn't figur…