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Procrastinatory Doom Loops

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Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#251

Post by omginternets »

romwell wrote: post #236
zhynn wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was very defensive when my wife said that I should consider being screened for ADHD, I have the exact experience you do (a the OP) around this stuff. The defensiveness was something that I sorted out, and looking back on things, so many of my "vices" were just self-medication for ADHD. They were mostly coping strategies (with the exception of some social vices). My adult diagnosis has been a game changer for me. I…

I describe the game change as going from hard mode to moderate/easy. Same game, entirely different experience.

Ha! Me too! I always joke that I spent my formative years playing in hard mode.

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#252

Post by omginternets »

300bps wrote: post #178
smoothpotato4 wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doing well at work is not an indication that you don’t have ADHD. Plenty of people with ADHD are perfectionists and overachievers, even those without medication. “Having a negative impact on your life” can be about more than just whether you perform well at work, it can be about how you feel about yourself and how you take care of yourself. I agree, medication is not always the answer. But that doesn’t mean it’s not…

Doing well at work is not an indication that you don’t have ADHD. Of course it is. Maybe if you changed "indication" to "guarantee" I would agree with you but as it is that sentence is objectively wrong. And of course there are other factors. I've definitely had symptoms of ADHD my entire life but once again that doesn't mean it rises to the level of a diagnosable disorder.

I did fairly well at school, completed a Ph.D, and launched a startup that got seed funding before getting diagnosed with ADHD at age 33.

There was a lot of needless suffering along the way, though.

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#253

Post by omginternets »

romwell wrote: post #225
300bps wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just want to point out - one can have symptoms of a disorder that don't rise to the level of a disorder. I have what OP describes like crazy, I beat myself up over it frequently and think I need to do better. Yet somehow I keep getting glowing reviews at work and even just got promoted without asking. So don't automatically think, "omg I do that too! I need medication." Start to worry if it has a substantial negative…

>I have what OP describes like crazy, I beat myself up over it frequently and think I need to do better. Yet somehow I keep getting glowing reviews at work and even just got promoted without asking. Hey, I have a PhD in mathematics, work experience in Microsoft and Google (among others), glowing reviews and all. And you know what would have been great? Getting treatment in high school, so that getting here would have…

Small protip for your phone: buy an induction charger that keeps the phone upright on your desk.

- it’s cool

- phone is always charged

- you’ll never lose it again, bc it’s just so cool to charge your phone on that thing

- did I mention it’s cool?

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#254

Post by romwell »

randallsquared wrote: post #202
pbrb wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly the same for me. I'm currently in the "I know I should be doing X but not being able to bring myself to" cycle on a piece of a major project. It's not hard work, I know how to do it, but I just cannot do it. I was diagnosed with ADHD as a child, and have avoided the medication my whole life. Recently, I decided to try Adderall. It's like magic to be honest, and has helped tremendously in multiple ways. I can…

> It's like magic to be honest For nearly everyone, if I understand correctly, ADHD or no.

You understand incorrectly, and you are propagating a harmful stereotype (which makes medication harder to obtain for people who need it).

Aderall has vastly different effects on people with ADHD vs. the rest.

The best I can say is the Adderall makes us feel the way you feel normally. To us, it feels like magic. The ability to switch from a task you're engaged in? The ability to do something that you need to do and want to do - and even enjoy - when you want to do it? Magic.

Enjoy the superpowers you never knew you had.

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#255

Post by romwell »

plutonorm wrote: post #63
TechBro8615 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pills help but motivation is not some emergent property of normality. You first need to care about, and genuinely want to do, the task required to accomplish your goals. I’m a fan of this quote from Steve Jobs – (paraphrasing) “every day you wake up and look in the mirror, do you like what you’re doing that day? If not, it’s time to do something else.” The other quote I like is Jeff Bezos and his “picturing mysel…

Why would I ever want to contribute to this roiling cesspit of a society? Why would I ever be happy working to increase the share value of some faceless company? What value does the human species have when life is mostly pain? Why would I care to try in a world full of selfish ignorant entitled morons? While I work to be an honest decent human being others around me lie and cheat and have so little self awareness tha…

Well, the society isn't just cheating locusts. It's also people like you. And like me.

Find your people, and you'll see a world worth contributing to.

I subscribe to the view that the notion of a dream job — as opposed to a dream vocation — was created by those you call mindless watchmakers.

That said, they are not necessarily mutually exclusive. There's a lot of middle ground. Is there place for you there? Not all work is corporate work, after all.

And if not, what would your vocation be?

Is there something you'd see yourself doing if the constraints of the world were not a concern?

If you struggle to answer this, the only thing I can recommend is taking a break from the rat race to heal and find your bearings. Therapy is something that helped me in this process, as therapists are like Stack Overflow for human problems (and, like with SO, it's quite rare to have a problem that nobody has already experienced and found a solution for).

Professional coaches are another resource that can help avoid stepping on the same rake again. It sounds like corporate isn't a good environment for you, and if you are still trying to find what is one, they can help to home in on the next step that would feel fulfilling (and, hopefully, provide income you can live on).

Best of luck, and if you feel isolated, reach out; you can find my info in the profile. Things really don't have to be this way.

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#256

Post by romwell »

bluejellybean wrote: post #134

Another trick that I haven't seen anyone talk about in this thread is visualization. I'll use this whenever I notice the loop, but still don't have the courage to actually stop. I'll pause for a moment, tell myself that I am NOT going to do the thing exactly at this moment, but instead I will just visualize the exact steps needed for when I eventually sit down to do it. This helps for those situations in which I'm pr…

The trick you describe is known in the ADHD community as "climbing the Wall of Awful"[1].

It's effective for people with ADHD because ADHD makes it difficult to see that first step, preventing one from getting started[2]. Visualizing the steps helps build the ladder over the wall of awful that you need to climb to start Doing The Thing.

Telling yourself that you're not going to Do The Thing now, you're just going to _______ (think about the steps, just do the first step, etc) is also a very effective ADHD srategy: you're fooling your brain into doing what you want to do by taking the pressure off. The whole task seems insurmountable, but finding that first thing that's relevant to the task and seems easy is the trick to getting started — and once you get started, there's a decent chance you'll go until it's done.

These techniques are helpful for everyone, but they're doubly important for people with ADHD, and are frequently discussed in the community.

And yes, it's absolutely work even if it doesn't feel that way. To the outside world, you might be sitting there being stuck. In reality, you're climbing that wall.

[1] https://romankogan.net/adhd/#Wall%20of%20Awful

[2] https://romankogan.net/adhd/#Getting%20Started

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#257

Post by john567 »

omginternets wrote: post #213
romwell wrote: post #143

>I do tasks on three timescales: they either get done immediately, after a shamefully massive delay, or not at all. There’s little in-between. To anyone relating: that's an ADHD symptom. It falls under the umbrella of Executive Dysfunction[1]. I have been beating myself up for it all my life, and turns out there are many things that work differently for people with ADHD - and many things that help (from medication[2]…

I was recently diagnosed with ADHD. I am 34. Part of what took so long to get this diagnosed is that it is poorly named. I do not have a deficit of attention; in fact, I have extreme sustained attention [0]. If the symptoms described by the parent poster are causing you to suffer, please consider that it might be ADHD, and that ADHD does not necessarily manifest in the way it's name suggests it should. Please also co…

I'm 35 and have been thinking about this a lot.

I start working on something and soon there after there is a constant stream of ideas and improvements that I could act on but aren't necessary right now. I write all these ideas down to get them out of my head but sometimes this process has a cascading effect and I find myself three layers deep into something very stimulating and interesting but it is not really what I think I should be doing. This takes up time.

I've never considered this to be unnatural or something everybody isn't struggling with but I recently started to think that maybe I need to calm my mind somehow and maybe there's useful medication for that.

Any experience on this is much appreciated.

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#258

Post by drakonka »

cipheredStones wrote: post #241
drakonka wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is interesting since it reminds me of the dynamic I have with my boyfriend as well. We seem to be opposites in this regard. I work better alone. Having someone else there, even if they aren't purposefully distracting me, just adds another tiny bit of awareness: Is he hungry? Is he bored? Does he want coffee? We haven't had lunch - should I cook? I should tidy. I feel like when there's a guest in my house I need…

I'm curious how long you've been dating your boyfriend. I've been with my girlfriend for a little under three years, and I think I would have felt much more pressure to attend to her like you're describing if we were only, say, a year in. (Although I don't actually know, because at that point we were in a long-distance relationship, so all the time we spent together in person was intensive relationship time.) The oth…

It's been three years, but a very weird three years (as is probably the case for most people) because of the pandemic. He was unable to self isolate due to his job, and was around hundreds of people daily. I worked from home and self isolated for about a year and a half. There was maybe a handful of times where we could work out ways to spend time together for a few days to a week at a time safely over that year and a half, but for the most part we barely saw each other except in video calls. So I don't think that three years of real time really amounted to three years of relationship time.

Good point about job searching vs coding, I think you're right.

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#259

Post by piva00 »

dcminter wrote: post #159
piva00 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing is new and we aren't all that unique, haha. The more you described your issue and how you deal with it the more I thought the same "are you me?". Instead of tech writing I try to produce music (still learning, just 3 years in) and I ended up using the same subterfuge: when I avoid opening my DAW to make music I just tell to myself "open it, create a motif with a preset sound you like and save the project", so…

Oh, hilarious, I see we're also both naturalised Swedes :D Good luck with the music (and anti-procrastination).

I believe we've actually worked together, your username made me quite sure about that :)

I will email you, glad to see you around!

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#260

Post by davidjytang »

thoughtpeddler wrote: post #155
romwell wrote: post #143

>I do tasks on three timescales: they either get done immediately, after a shamefully massive delay, or not at all. There’s little in-between. To anyone relating: that's an ADHD symptom. It falls under the umbrella of Executive Dysfunction[1]. I have been beating myself up for it all my life, and turns out there are many things that work differently for people with ADHD - and many things that help (from medication[2]…

I wouldn't so quickly jump to "that's an ADHD symptom". I know many people inarguably not ADHD who exhibit similar task timescales. I don't want to discount the fact that this can be a hallmark symptom of ADHD for those that truly have/are ADHD. However, some part of this reaction is over-pathologization. It's increasingly accepted that ADHD is over-diagnosed [1] [2] [3], and I feel that this task timescale concept a…

An ADHD symptom does not require the patient to have ADHD.
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