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My First Impressions of Web3

moxie.org

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Re: My First Impressions of Web3

#771
post #650

I can see why everything is centralized: moderation. How would you ban NFTs that would be considered illegal? Sure a solution would be to put the NFTs on a decentralized file system (IPFS?) or a P2P sharing network. And have kind of P2P/decentralized API that can easily be validated. But then, how would you ban illegal content? I'm sure Opensea would prefer to keep everything centralized and under control. But clearl…

You seem to readily assume there is such a thing as universally "illegal" content. Can you elaborate? Who decides what is "illegal"? Which jurisdiction? Who enforces it?

Re: My First Impressions of Web3

#772
post #380
post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well sure but that's the "analog gap" problem. NFTs don't fix that, do they? In the end there'll have to be something that will tie a given NFT to a given watch, and one way or the other it'll be the same issue as tying my CSV to a given watch.

I agree, one can’t easily tie an NFT to a physical object. Nothing guarantees that the watch and NFT change ownership in tandem. All I’m saying is that a serial number doesn’t really prove anything because it’s trivial to copy. A private key inextricable from the object would be better, because it could generate timestamped signatures as proof.

Even with time stamped signatures you can clone the signature onto a fake watch.

Re: My First Impressions of Web3

#773

I'll be honest I had no idea that access to Ethereum is effectively gate-kept by two centralized entities (Infura, Alchemy). I knew there were only one or two true Ethereum full-nodes, but the impact of that never quite clicked. [edit] By "full node" I meant "archival node."

I'm curious what would happen if somebody uploaded illegal data (e.g. child porn, sensitive PII, or government secrets) to an Ethereum contract. Would these nodes be legally required to filter it? If you look at something like the Pirate Bay, it's not simply enough that you are an allegedly content-unaware service -- once you become aware of your service being used for or distributing something illegal, you are requi…

IIRC this happened years ago on the bitcoin blockchain. I guess that nobody seems to care about that data being shared across every full wallet because bitcoin's primary use case is too remote from data sharing ?

Re: My First Impressions of Web3

#774
post #650

I can see why everything is centralized: moderation. How would you ban NFTs that would be considered illegal? Sure a solution would be to put the NFTs on a decentralized file system (IPFS?) or a P2P sharing network. And have kind of P2P/decentralized API that can easily be validated. But then, how would you ban illegal content? I'm sure Opensea would prefer to keep everything centralized and under control. But clearl…

The uniswap people made a standard called tokenlists to help users filter out spam and junk tokens while still allowing anyone to list any token. I don't see why this couldn't work for sets of NFTs as well.

https://tokenlists.org/

Re: My First Impressions of Web3

#775
post #703
post #29

>When you think about it, OpenSea would actually be much “better” in the immediate sense if all the web3 parts were gone. It would be faster, cheaper for everyone, and easier to use. That sums up the situation for me. Having a marketplace for purely digital goods might be a concept with a future. Having standard ways to interoperate between different platforms and query and update these goods might make sense (althou…

The problem with traditional authority models is that the authority may disappear or be subverted. In regions with unstable governments you cannot rely on the government to keep saying that your house is your house. This is why I think the really valuable and underserved use case of the blockchain is decentralized identity. You can prove you are who you say, you’ve studied where you claim, you’ve worked at the places…

I don't really see how that works.

Do you propose that "all" authorities provide digital certificates, in preparation for the region becoming unstable? If yes, paper certificates already exist, and seem to go missing -- why would it be harder for digital certificates to go missing? Or for the thing that ties one person to their digital certificates?

Or do you propose that authorities in unstable regions provide digital certificates? If yes, how can you trust them, given the unstable nature?

I value thinking about these things, but somehow I still struggle to see where the proposed extra value comes in. Maybe I'm thinking too much in extremes, and the value breaks down in extreme cases.

Re: My First Impressions of Web3

#776

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As far as I know those two services don't do anything to try to force you to use them, and people just use them out of convenience because "People don’t want to run their own servers, and never will." Indeed, but one could make the same claim re any Web 2 juggernauts like Google and Facebook. You don't need to use them, sure. You can start your own social network. It's just expensive and inconvenient. This is what…

Except that you do need to use Google and Facebook if you want to interact with their data. They literally gate-keep the access to their data. It's not just inconvenient to host your own server that discovers peers and syncs the entire log of all historical events on the Facebook social network and allows you to write new events to that log which those peers will recognize. That's impossible (or at least, it would re…

There was a discussion recently about gmail and hotmail misbehaving in silently dropping mails sent from small mail servers.

As you can imagine it's kind of hard to push back against these bad actors by threatening them to do the same thing to them, due to their sheer size.

Re: My First Impressions of Web3

#777
post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The centralization of apis (infura, opensea and ethscan used by metamask) is the biggest problem. I could be wrong, but I don't think we've seen that fast consolidation in other early tech. I remember in the late 90s there were a number of search engines but no one really owned the space. Only 20 years later did Google emerge as the winner and is (IMO) by far the best in terms of relevant results. But that didn't hap…

> The centralization of apis (infura, opensea and ethscan used by metamask) is the biggest problem. I could be wrong, but I don't think we've seen that fast consolidation in other early tech. I remember in the late 90s there were a number of search engines but no one really owned the space. Only 20 years later did Google emerge as the winner and is (IMO) by far the best in terms of relevant results. But that didn't h…

What is your point? Sounds to me you're just regurgitating technical mambo jambo that doesn't realy have any relation whatsoever to any of the points quoted!

Are you trying to say that by optimizing a node's software, people will be able to run a full node on their devices?? That's patently false currently, even more if the technology actually goes viral one day (small system-level optimisations simply won't scale to compensate for the fast increase in the blockchain size).

Re: My First Impressions of Web3

#778

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding your last sentence, I think that's fine. I know Moxie criticizes people for saying “It’s early days still" but I really do think it's early days and NFTs have driven crypto into the mainstream too quickly. Crypto researchers are still chipping away at the math and computer science required to bring the web3 vision to life. What's unfortunate is I've yet to see an article on hacker news about this research a…

Does this not prove his point though? Because decentralization is harder to get right on a technical level, centralized alternatives will always outcompete more decentralized ones.

Centralized alternatives will always have the first mover advantage, but decentralized alternatives are potentially superior in the long run.

Re: My First Impressions of Web3

#779

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or even just include a content hash along with the URL in the NFT payload. Just a way to verify the referent of the URL hasn't changed since the NFT was minted. Where you can find the content with that hash if not the URL can be left arbitrary or out-of-band, but it's at least capturing a fingerprint of the content, not just an address. It seems like this would be absolutely trivial to implement, right? Just... add a…

I don't know for sure, but I'd guess they don't do file hashes because image hosts so often change the file you uploaded. They might compress it, remove unnecessary metadata, or add their own metadata. All of that would change the file contents, breaking the hash. A permenantly verifiable has still doesn't really solve it though. Someone can still change or remove the file later, even if you downloaded the original b…

> What's the point of paying so much money for the right to kind of own a piece of art that anyone can legally copy and use?

I don't fully understand the "collector" mindset. But let's assume there are people, similar to whales in free-to-play games, that are willing to pay ridiculous large sums for what the majority would not be willing to pay anything for.

Now, think of those collectors as being willing to pay for ownership over original artwork.

The Mona Lisa itself has many replicas, you can buy prints of it, and you could probably easily find paintings of it for much cheaper. Those are all copies as well, but their monetary value is much lower, because people know they are not the original.

Now, think of photography, there are people collecting prints, sometimes of digital photography. Similarly, the 1st print is worth a lot more. Think of Vinyl records, or CD/cassette tapes for music, the worth of the 1st pressed record is a lot more, and collectors are willing to pay a lot for them.

Now think of complete digital art, that which is not even printed. Which is the "original"? Unless you were to own the HDD or the RAM stick where it was first recorded, all instances are perfect copies of the same bits. So instead, the "original" is the first person the artist publicly acknowledged as the owner of the "original". It is like the artist signing the print. This is recorded in a public ledger, that people trust and believe to be very hard to manipulate or fake. That is what an NFT is.

You might find it absurd, but is it anymore absurd than paying lots of money for the 1st print of a photo? Or the first pressed vinyl? Or the first book as signed by the artist?

The value is in people's head and emotional attachment. Someone was given by the artist themselves recognition of the piece signed in a public ledger. That's now the "original" and people assign it value.

You can think of it a bit how a lot of collectors offer public showing of their collection, the fact others can "see" the artwork for themselves isn't what make it valuable, it's the emotional knowledge around it, that of having it handed directly by the artist itself.

This is what I've understood of it at least.

Edit: Now the article still makes good point, that as it stands, some NFTs are ambiguous as to what artwork they even relate too or if they were truly created by the "artist".

Re: My First Impressions of Web3

#780
“Protocols move slowly. After 30 years, email is still unencrypted.”

OK, so I know what moxie means but in terms of sniffability: how much SMTP traffic is actually conducted in plaintext these days? Could someone put a ballpark value on the amount?

For starters: 50% must be big-webmail-provider to either themselves or another big-webmail-provider. Do the long tail not have their LetsEncrypt certificates configured?

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