Live data from Hacker News

My First Impressions of Web3

moxie.org

341–350 of 1001 posts

Re: My First Impressions of Web3

#341
post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MetaMask is a wallet, its not ingrained into any blockchain, your free to use alternatives, and many protocols don't support it. The centralized aspect of a chrome app and marketplace like opensea is very well know issue and talked about a lot in crypto, the problem of course comes down to lack of education, which is apparent in this very post.

Can you point me to where this insightful discussion happens? And where can I educate myself? 99,99% of content and forums I find online about crypto only care about promoting coins, nfts or services basing only on futuristic visionary promises, hyping up the users and attempts at FOMO. It's almost literal spam. This is the first time I read something that just explains how thing works from a technical standpoint and…

Its almost entirely done on crypto twitter. You follow the builders and they talk about this stuff. Tweet threads are terrible but that is where the good information is.

Twitter is frustrating in that the good content is buried and if you follow the wrong people they just spam your feed.

Its a constant battle to keep the signal to noise ratio of your feed high and the right people to follow constantly changes.

Re: My First Impressions of Web3

#342

While it's refreshing to hear critique from someone who actually built something on web3, there are a couple of points where I'd dare to disagree, somewhat. Particularly, regarding "early days". It really is, still, early days, because there is a lot of complexity in getting all the pieces built. It took years to get overall blockchain going. Then, to understand the need of programmability (smart contracts). Other pi…

I don't buy the early part. 3 years into the internet we already had emails and tcp. 13 years into blockchains we have nothing.

We have something!

We have a ton of money in unregulated markets sloshing around reinventing every financial scam known to man.

That's got to be something!

Re: My First Impressions of Web3

#343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's true, but if the NFTs show up on some places and not on others then you could start a "resistance" against the existing market places. Outside of DMCAs and other such legal requirements, an exchange needs to be impartial about the stuff being sold and published on there to remain credible. The cryptocurrency crowd is usually drawn to the decentralised, unregulated market, and OpenSea has turned out to be the e…

Except that OpenSea is successful. So it shows that people don't really care about (a) decentralisation or (b) manipulation of the true blockchain output.

>Except that OpenSea is successful.

thanks to VC money looking to centralize the web3 economy.

Re: My First Impressions of Web3

#344
post #198

> People don’t want to run their own servers, and never will That's one believably accurate summary. But here's another: rather than focus on trying to make it easy, cheap and simple for everyone to run their own servers, the tech world spent 1996-today instead focused on offering to take care of this for everybody else, for a price. Everybody concluded in the late 90s that the "nobody wants to run their own servers"…

I was a webmaster back in the days when one could debate cern vs ncsa and which provided a better server and for a while, I ran my own web servers at home on some static IPs from Speakeasy... The issue is that the complexity of the modern systems have gone beyond what one person can keep in their head and maintain. This is doubly true when one considers the amount of time investment to keep on top of patches and CVEs…

> I was a webmaster back in the days when one could debate cern vs ncsa and which provided a better server and for a while, I ran my own web servers at home on some static IPs from Speakeasy...

I fired up my first httpd when the current chair of UWashington CS&E was pissed off about a NYT article on how physicists were building this new-fangled computer network thing. So we have that in common ....

> The simple servers are still there. Grab a web server and put static files for it to be served - but people don't want that. They want a fully functional web application with persisted data with a maximum outage window less than the duration of a good night's sleep.

That's actually what most people who've ended up posting pictures on Instagram and blogging on Wordpress want. They need something one or maybe two steps up from a static site. Essentially, something like Squarespace but self-hosted.

> And then you've got to find some way to keep that device patched

Most linux distros can do a perfectly reasonable job of this already.

> For me, even imagining the work that I'd need to do to my home network to set up that

That reflects the incredibly limited work that has gone into making self-run servers easy, stable and correct over the last 25+ years.

> a quote from Ansel Adams about the darkroom and that it was a necessity for photography - but he'd rather be out there taking photographs than in the room making the print.

The difference is that we've have the capability to change the analogy stand-in for the dark room so that you have to spend almost no time on it at all. We haven't done it, because we took the path towards server-hosting companies and left the software to be as technical and fussy as almost anything out there. Adams would likely have been entirely fine with spending 15-30 mins a month in his darkroom.

> imagine a device on the network that is accepting all incoming traffic and talking to anyone who listens.

What web server does this? If such a machine was the only solution, then I'd agree with you - this would be a catastrophic issue. But we really don't use such systems anywhere and certainly would not do so for a toy-level home appliance.

> Spin up that server as an instance on AWS instead and then the worst that will happen is you'll rack up a large bill when it's compromised and someone runs a crypto miner on it.

Now that's a fair point.

Re: My First Impressions of Web3

#346
post #51

I like Moxie's work and writings, and this article has some great points, but I can't get behind this: We should accept the premise that people will not run their own servers by designing systems that can distribute trust without having to distribute infrastructure. I'm not ready to give in. I am happy to leave "normal" (tech illiterate and politically apathetic) people behind to reach my decentralization goals. I th…

> I am happy to leave "normal" (tech illiterate and politically apathetic) people behind to reach my decentralization goals. You realize this approximates to roughly "everyone that isn't you"?

I doubt it. Definitely 2-3 standard deviations. But that leaves something like 0.05% of the population.

Re: My First Impressions of Web3

#347
Once again I was hoping for a discussion of IPFS, DAT and Hyper. I've written post of an implementation for HyperSwarm and am impressed by the possibilities for decentralization. Does anyone know of a similar article for web3 that excludes the blockchain?

Re: My First Impressions of Web3

#348
post #166
post #29

>When you think about it, OpenSea would actually be much “better” in the immediate sense if all the web3 parts were gone. It would be faster, cheaper for everyone, and easier to use. That sums up the situation for me. Having a marketplace for purely digital goods might be a concept with a future. Having standard ways to interoperate between different platforms and query and update these goods might make sense (althou…

As the article points out, many NFTs are implemented by storing a URL in the blockchain; the digital artwork sits on some server and is reachable by that link. Fine, you can prove that you own the URL. But what that URL points to can change out from under you, so there's no way to make that trustless. If you own the domain and the server that it points to, the registrar can take the domain away from you and give it t…

This is trivially solved by including a hash of the object in the ownership certificate.

Re: My First Impressions of Web3

#349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Worse, the blockchain does not, apparently, contain the hash of the data. It very often does, and it is certainly the case for most high-value NFTs. It is indeed not the case if you create your NFT on OpenSea and do not take the additional step of freezing the metadata. Also, there are many artworks that change, so a hash to a single file is not necessarily the right solution.

So if you purchase an NFT, you need to make a local copy of the actual data? Since the blockchain only has the hash? And if whatever server you originally got the data from the NFT for went down, you'd lose it if you didn't make a backup? In those cases does the blockchain still have the URL as well? And you might end up with a collection of bits that matched the hash in the blockchain but was no longer at the origin…

the data has no value. anyone can right click copy an image. the value is that you own the blockchain address that points to a url. picture of a house = no value. deed to the house = value. even if the house is destroyed (data changed), the deed still has some kind of value

Re: My First Impressions of Web3

#350
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh it’s totally doable to run your own node on your own server! And thanks to the protocols consensus rules your users can trust that for a transaction to go through your node and be accepted onto main net your node is a good actor. So one example I’d give - every team I’ve worked on has had to build a local development environment with several nodes to easily spin up with a clean slate for deterministic testing. Tea…

Okay. Why doesn’t everyone do that, then? Why use Infura? As is hopefully obvious, I am totally naive here; my questions are genuine. Thanks!

same reason people are moving to aws, and people which used to use aws instances are moving to serverless.

Leave infrastructure work for other people.

Post reply on HN