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My First Impressions of Web3

moxie.org

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Re: My First Impressions of Web3

#261
post #220
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO this diagnosis is still one level away from a more fundamental truism, which is that people don't want to pay anything for digital goods. Running servers can and has been massively simplified over the last couple decades, and I don't see any inherent technical barrier preventing it from being as simple as registering for an account on FB (i.e. anyone can do it). The deeper problem is the lack of willingness to pa…

people don't want to pay anything for digital goods Which brings up a different problem: Web3 assumes that everything you do online will cost money . Even assuming that fees go to zero, virtually nobody wants that. Web3 advocates will say that the money you earn will offset what you spend, but you only have to look at Patreon/Substack/OnlyFans earnings to see that it won't happen for most people.

It also strikes me that there’s an implicit requirement to “already have sufficient capital” to operate in the crypto space - even more so that normal finance. I don’t see middle-to-low income people being willing to adopt this as any interaction will burn even more of a limited resource than normal mechanisms.

If the majority of people can’t get in, or can’t afford to do anything in the space, is there any real chance this will actually take off?

Now I’m sure someone will respond along the lines of “crypto is an investment/asset not a currency, etc etc etc” in which case, why is it trying to do all these currency things?

Re: My First Impressions of Web3

#262

At the risk of displaying my ignorance and lack of knowledge about this area, one part I found very familiar in this article is that the action interactions in his apps didn't actually interact with the blockchain, but essentially with two centralized services. My very limited understanding is that for blockchains essentially the way to distribute them is that every node has a full copy. This sounds awfully expensive…

[deleted]

Re: My First Impressions of Web3

#263

Wait I assumed that NFT marketplaces like OpenSea stored a hash of the artwork in the layer 1 blockchain. Please someone tell me this is actually happening?!

It's usually a URL of the artwork that is stored on the blockchain.

That URL is sometimes an IPFS url, which is a hash of the content. But it could be anything, that's why you can create NFTs which change their image based on where they are viewed, or eventually 404.

3rd party wallets often don't bother looking up the blockchain to find the URL. They just query a centralised API like the one run by OpenSea. That's why OpenSea blocking an NFT can make it show up as blank in 3rd party wallets.

Re: My First Impressions of Web3

#264
post #165

If you care about the environment even a little bit (like turning off lights in rooms you're not occupying) then you will reject Web3. Even the most efficient blockchains use more energy than the status quo unnecessarily. This is also to say nothing of the fact that it's more expensive per USD/KB transferred, slower and more complicated. I think what Web3 should be is a way to use your laptop or any commodity compute…

Algorand is carbon-negative. The inventor is a Turing-award winning MIT professor.

Via carbon offsets, so they emit all the co2 up front and then hope the forests their partners plant are both real and will be properly managed for the next few decades.

Re: My First Impressions of Web3

#265

> People don’t want to run their own servers, and never will This kind of gets at the reason why I think a lot of tech articles/blogs about what the future will be like are just terrible. The wants of someone who is driven enough read and write about the bleeding edge of technology are very, very different from the general population. Like this author says, most people don't want to run their own web server, but I'd…

It like getting a kid to compost, sew seeds, tend to the veggie patch, pull weeds and 10 weeks later cook and eat the vegetables. Im the sort of person who should be interested in web3 (i dreamt of this kind of stuff years ago although had no technical idea how it might work) but now I’ve seen the culture of the space I have no interest.

I agree, my distaste of the culture that’s associating itself with crypto and web3 is far outweighing the technical benefits they’re claiming.

Re: My First Impressions of Web3

#267

The first article on Web3 that I've read that drills into the details and was written by someone who's not only kicked the tires but taken the thing for a spin. And the conclusion: It's mostly the bad stuff of Web2 combined with the bad stuff of Crypto.

I think you are over-simplifying the conclusions of the article. The article presents a much more nuanced view, and while it points to certain limitations and deficiencies of Web 3.0 (and that only on the Eth part of it; we are in a multi-blockchain world now), it also points to several strengths of the growing ecosystems, and mostly comes across as humble; not knowing how its all going to turn out.

I keep reading that there are a ton better blockchains than eth, but then it seems that all dapps continue to use just eth, even at the cost of insane gas fees. Why is that?

Re: My First Impressions of Web3

#268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FTP is horrible. I'm glad as a web dev I haven't touched it in 8 years not since I worked for a hosting company in tech support.... git, or even rsync over ssh is way better... The upcoming generation..even the 'non-tech' people are tech-savvy, meaning most could probably get arch linux up and running at least via a distro or follow the docs, etc...where there parents would fail. the problem is they need to create so…

>The upcoming generation..even the 'non-tech' people are tech-savvy, meaning most could probably get arch linux up and running at least via a distro or follow the docs, etc...where there parents would fail. I don't know what members of the upcoming generation you're dealing with, but the ones I know are more computer illiterate than their parents. Their parents played games on dos and had to configure shit, the kids…

My mom had some data entry/BASIc programming skills, today she can't even work wordpress or her cellphone...

I grew up in the 80s, and can learn just about any tech... my 4 year old can work any electronic device like he was born with it.

Re: My First Impressions of Web3

#269
post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Archival nodes also keep state back to the genesis block, it's just stored in delta format so you could say that it's not "unpacked" out to the disk. It's a common misconception that "full nodes" don't have all this data. > Every now and then someone will argue on CT that Ethereum full nodes are not complete nodes because archive nodes exist. I decided to run a little experiment to disprove a few things > The goal wa…

The fact that all the data is there is kind of irrelevant if you can't query it.

Why would you want to query it, though?

A full node lets you fully verify the chain's historical states and it lets you interact with the current state. Unless you're running a service that exists solely to allow people to query historical states (like a block explorer service), I don't see why it would be useful to be able to query historical state.

Re: My First Impressions of Web3

#270
I love the idea(ls) of cryptocurrencies and yet I hate "web3" because it's a misnomer that led to a series of misconstructions:

Web3 is futile because it attempts to rebuild the Web (1) on an abysmally resource-constrained global computer which (2) uses a bunch of protocols that makes it impossible interact with using web browsers thus requiring a series of intermediary parties whom participants have to rely on. It is not even the fact that I need to trust those intermediaries, I trust a bunch of Web 2 corporations for some of the most critical services anyway, but the fact that we end up where we have started except it is now more expensive and much slower.

It is easy to dismiss Web3 as such, but that would not be fruitful. Besides all financial incentives, I (would like to) believe that there is a group of people who are sincerely interested in a more decentralized web, or rather, a web that is decentralized in a fundamentally different way than Web 2 and Web 1 are and were. To make it more concrete, there is an interest in decoupling authoring and hosting of web services; Linux distributions have had mirrors all over the world for the efficient distribution of data years before BitTorrent, so the magic of BitTorrent was not just about its efficiency promises, but in bringing content-addressed data to masses and thus decoupling the authoring (torrent creating) and the hosting (seeding) of content. Instead of having to ask Debian's permission to set up a mirror, I could now simply seed its torrent. It thus mattered that this decoupling has been implemented not at a social level (mirrors) but at a protocol level (peers).

You may be familiar with the concept of cardinality in databases: one-to-one, one-to-many, many-to-many. Indeed, it can be just as useful to describe the access patterns to databases:

(A) A one-for-one database is where a single writer is storing data for themselves. In the world of decentralized apps (not necessarily crypto-ridden web3), a good example is draw.io (and Zero Data Apps[0] in general) which allows you to "bring your own storage". On desktop, you have Joplin[1] for note-keeping that can synchronize to various cloud services.

(B) A one-for-many database is where a single writer is distributing content to many. BitTorrent and IPFS are prime examples of this.

(C) On the other hand, a many-for-many database is one that multiple writers store data for multiple readers. A centralized example of this is Hacker News, Twitter, reddit, and so on... This is what web3 attempts to be. There are a couple application-level attempts[2] at this, but not as much at a lower level that can enable arbitrary many-for-many use cases except blockchains.

Sadly the critics of web3 do not acknowledge that there are legitimate use cases for decentralized many-to-many databases that would, for instance, allow members of Hacker News to be able to host it in the same way that they are able to seed an existing torrent, and there are currently no other application-agnostic solutions than blockchains. Sadly, again, the proponents of web3 do not realize that the consistency guarantees of a financial ledger are too unnecessarily strict for many use cases.

I am working on a many-for-many database with much lesser consistency guarantees using SQLite and based on CRDTs designed to be used in browsers from day one (hence, as an example, using P-256[3] for public key cryptography rather than Bitcoin's and Ethereum's secp256k1 as the former is readily available in WebCrypto). This is something I do in my spare time and 100% for experimentation and fun without any financial motives or elements; let me know if you are interested in collaborating or following, email in the bio.

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[0] https://0data.app/

[1] https://joplinapp.org/

[2] https://getaether.net/

[3] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/EcKeyGenPar...

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