California Considers Doubling Its Taxes • Hacker News Board

Re: California Considers Doubling Its Taxes

#121

Post by commandlinefan » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 8:32 PM UTC

omgwtfbyobbq wrote: post #92

kyrra wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought Vermont already tried single-payer healthcare? https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/why-v...

They tried to try it, but there were too many hurdles so they abandoned it. California could be the same, but there are benefits it has the Vermont didn't, as well as a significantly larger number of people to negotiate on behalf of. >As with any attempt to dismantle one American health-care system and replace it with another, Green Mountain Care was always going to be a long game. For starters, it would not be until…

> so they abandoned it

Did they repeal the tax increase?

Re: California Considers Doubling Its Taxes

#122

Post by TheMagicHorsey » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 8:32 PM UTC

no_wizard wrote: post #4

> to fund a first-in-the-nation single-payer health-care system. This is key here. So instead of paying this out to a private insurance company I pay it in taxes, there by my actual change is net zero, in most cases. I have a feeling most reactions might be headline driven here. I think it’s worth doing the math on how much it costs you in healthcare coverage before really judging a book by its cover here. If my comp…

This is not taking into account CA government efficiency. I've lived here for 30 years. I'm not putting my family health into the hands of a government that has zero successful large scale projects under its belt and can't even run a parental benefits system where people can get their checks sent to the right address.

No thanks. We're moving. More real estate and jobs for the rest of you true believers. Enjoy the weather. I will miss it.

Re: California Considers Doubling Its Taxes

#123

Post by _moof » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 8:32 PM UTC

vondur wrote: post #5

I can't imagine something like this working out well here. In the current environment, I'd imagine a big chunk of the tech force that can work remotely will simply leave the state. This would devastate the states income tax collection.

Like most states, nonresidents owe California tax on income from California sources.

Re: California Considers Doubling Its Taxes

#124

Post by Kye » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 8:32 PM UTC

kyrra wrote: post #64

no_wizard wrote: post #4

> to fund a first-in-the-nation single-payer health-care system. This is key here. So instead of paying this out to a private insurance company I pay it in taxes, there by my actual change is net zero, in most cases. I have a feeling most reactions might be headline driven here. I think it’s worth doing the math on how much it costs you in healthcare coverage before really judging a book by its cover here. If my comp…

I thought Vermont already tried single-payer healthcare? https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/why-v...

I had to close this immediately due to the auto-playing video. Do you have an article from a less obnoxious source?

Re: California Considers Doubling Its Taxes

#125

Post by cal5k » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 8:32 PM UTC

ren_engineer wrote: post #27

no_wizard wrote: post #4

> to fund a first-in-the-nation single-payer health-care system. This is key here. So instead of paying this out to a private insurance company I pay it in taxes, there by my actual change is net zero, in most cases. I have a feeling most reactions might be headline driven here. I think it’s worth doing the math on how much it costs you in healthcare coverage before really judging a book by its cover here. If my comp…

when has California's government recently shown any capability to successfully implement big projects or spend tax payer money efficiently? How is the high speed train project coming along?

If you want an extreme example of how bad a single payer system can get, look at Canada. Not only do we have a single-payer system, we've actually banned private pay of any kind for "medically necessary" services.

The net effect is predictable - Canada consistently ranks very poorly in international health system comparisons. We have far fewer ICU beds, doctors, imaging machines, etc. per capita than peer nations, and the entire country is in varying degrees of harsh lockdown because our hospitals were already overwhelmed during a normal flu season.

What states should do is encourage more competition as a way to lower healthcare costs. Y'all actually have one of the best systems in the world, it's just way too expensive.

Re: California Considers Doubling Its Taxes

#126

Post by topaz0 » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 8:32 PM UTC

davesque wrote: post #12

no_wizard wrote: post #4

> to fund a first-in-the-nation single-payer health-care system. This is key here. So instead of paying this out to a private insurance company I pay it in taxes, there by my actual change is net zero, in most cases. I have a feeling most reactions might be headline driven here. I think it’s worth doing the math on how much it costs you in healthcare coverage before really judging a book by its cover here. If my comp…

Also, I guess in theory an employer could pass through the savings of paying for your insurance to your salary. Of course, I'm pretty cynical about that.

I'm all for being cynical about the devotion of employers to their employees, but I think it's reasonable to expect a good chunk of their savings on health care costs will be shifted to other kinds of compensation. Of course, the employer will try to spend as little as possible on their employees conditional on being able to hire the workers they need. But they won't be able to hire the workers they need if they are out of line with the market in compensation. Part of that calculus in today's world is that employees expect their employers to provide them with good health insurance. If the employee is instead paying for that health insurance through their taxes, they will expect to be paid more. This will only work for the employees who have some power to bargain with their employers, i.e. workers whose skills are in demand. But then, the same goes for healthcare in the current situation.

Re: California Considers Doubling Its Taxes

#127

Post by sam0x17 » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 8:32 PM UTC

SllX wrote: post #20

This will be one of the easiest “No” votes I’ll have ever filled out on my ballot. For those following along at home, this resolution would take the form of a Constitutional Amendment, if passed by Californians on the ballot that would raise per household taxes by $12,500/year. The important thing here is that Californians have to agree to pass it.

I pay $1.3k/month for private insurance for myself + my husband, so it would be an easy yes vote for me.

Re: California Considers Doubling Its Taxes

#128

Post by PaulDavisThe1st » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 8:32 PM UTC

john_moscow wrote: post #59

qaq wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking at housing availability hard to believe there is an actual net outflow from CA

There's an outflow of people willing to produce value, and an inflow of people ready to consume it. It will work just great until suddenly there's not that many value left to feed all the hungry mouths. And then the mouths will take pitchforks and go raid the nearby granary because that's where they think the food is. Only to find it empty because the people willing to actually produce food left long time ago. USSR h…

It's not clear if you consider the people willing to pay $N million for houses in various parts of the state "people willing to produce value" or "people ready to consume it". Perhaps you could enlighten us?

Re: California Considers Doubling Its Taxes

#129

Post by sneak » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 8:32 PM UTC

Maxion wrote: post #34

mdavis6890 wrote: post #15

I do not believe single-payer is a good idea, but then lots of people DO seem to think it is, and the state is probably the best level at which to conduct an experiment this way. As a Californian, I'll be happy to see the experiment conducted, sad that it happens in my state, and excited to be a guinea pig. My only hope if we do this is that the federal govt or other states do not leap quickly into this and give it a…

Why do you believe single-payer is a bad idea? The model works very well in most European countries.

Most european countries have fewer poor people by percentage than the USA. Single payer "works" in europe in the sense that you still end up having to pay out of pocket if you want not-crap (private) care.

Re: California Considers Doubling Its Taxes

#130

Post by dillondoyle » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 8:32 PM UTC

oa2022 wrote: post #80

Maxion wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you believe single-payer is a bad idea? The model works very well in most European countries.

It works in the sense that I go to a private clinic when I have an issue. Likewise with the great public school system, where families pay 30k per year so they can avoid a public school

In most countries that have public care you can still do this, just like opting for private schools. Britain people buy private insurance for any additional services they want. But I don't think they usually get a tax incentives like private school does can in the US?

https://turbotax.intuit.com/tax-tips/college-and-education/t...