If this passes I will be the first to move to California. I am happy to pay high taxes if it means it will better my lives and the lives of others.
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I mean, I will move too, because OP will pay for mine.
California Considers Doubling Its Taxes
81–90 of 363 posts
Re: California Considers Doubling Its Taxes
#82> to fund a first-in-the-nation single-payer health-care system. This is key here. So instead of paying this out to a private insurance company I pay it in taxes, there by my actual change is net zero, in most cases. I have a feeling most reactions might be headline driven here. I think it’s worth doing the math on how much it costs you in healthcare coverage before really judging a book by its cover here. If my comp…
It goes beyond deductions too. Though maybe you're referring to total costs of premiums or company pays costs that probably come out of your comp.
I was shocked to learn how much my parent's insurance costs.
Even though ostensibly employed by a huge multi-national, my dad technically operates as his own S-corp so they have to buy on the market. That seems to be a trend in the gig economy which is worse for low 'wage' earners.
I also am on private market as I own my business. Mine is $500 a month at 32 and healthy. Theirs is 2k ish and increases significantly each year (65 and 62). That is really hard for almost all older Americans to afford. By the time they are 75 or even older the cost would be insane if this continues.
I agree that messaging is what's holding back reform. The messaging is so easy to short circuit. Just look at the headline of this post. No one wants their taxes to double.
Re: California Considers Doubling Its Taxes
#83> to fund a first-in-the-nation single-payer health-care system. This is key here. So instead of paying this out to a private insurance company I pay it in taxes, there by my actual change is net zero, in most cases. I have a feeling most reactions might be headline driven here. I think it’s worth doing the math on how much it costs you in healthcare coverage before really judging a book by its cover here. If my comp…
Another thing that people are missing is that a net zero change, or even a small loss would be worth it in terms of freedom. You're no longer compelled to stay at your current job just to keep your healthcare, and if you lose your job then you only have one problem rather than two -- especially in the middle of a pandemic, when lots of people are getting laid off and needing to go to the hospital due to covid
Re: California Considers Doubling Its Taxes
#84> to fund a first-in-the-nation single-payer health-care system. This is key here. So instead of paying this out to a private insurance company I pay it in taxes, there by my actual change is net zero, in most cases. I have a feeling most reactions might be headline driven here. I think it’s worth doing the math on how much it costs you in healthcare coverage before really judging a book by its cover here. If my comp…
when has California's government recently shown any capability to successfully implement big projects or spend tax payer money efficiently? How is the high speed train project coming along?
This is my thought, as well. When your private insurance company stinks, you find a new insurer. When you're forced to pay the government for health insurance, you're stuck without options. Health insurance isn't one of the services that I trust the government to be able to run well. They don't have a particularly great track record where efficiency, customer service, and speed are concerned.
Re: California Considers Doubling Its Taxes
#85Deceptive title, kind of designed for clickbait
The first sentence: >>A proposed constitutional amendment (ACA 11) in California would increase taxes by $12,250 per household, roughly doubling the state’s already high tax collections, to fund a first-in-the-nation single-payer health-care system.
It completely omits that this move would simultaneously remove every resident's healthcare & insurance costs.
Pretty obvious bad-faith writing, and it is disappointing to see it echoed on HN.
Edit: I'm happy to read about and discuss the merits and problems of such a proposal, but this kind of title is just irritating - it's what I try to come here to avoid.
Re: California Considers Doubling Its Taxes
#86There's a lot of contextless scaremongering in the article. Here's one example.
> For instance, the payroll tax exempts employers with fewer than 50 resident employees, punishing small businesses for expanding and creating a meaningful tax cliff. Imagine, for instance, the overly simplified hypothetical of a company with 49 employees making $80,000 each. At 49 employees, the company has no payroll tax burden. Hiring one additional employee generates a tax bill of $90,000—more than that employee’s salary!
Wow! NINETY K, MAN! That's a lot of money, says Joe Q Public.
Except....revenue per employee is ~$100k for small businesses, with larger companies being $200k or more.
At 49 employees, your business has likely $4.9M in revenue or more.
That means that additional big scary $80k represents 1.6% of your revenue.
Yawn.
Re: California Considers Doubling Its Taxes
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
They really aren't. 100 people moving to a town in Idaho makes a big impact on that town in Idaho but is not felt at all by California.
38% decrease in people moving to California 12% increase in residents moving out of state last year. In San Francisco Bay Area, it's even more stark. There was a 45% decrease in entrances from other states to the Bay Area and a 21% increase in residents leaving for other states.
People halting moves into a dense population center because the city shut down for covid is not the same thing as people "fleeing in droves for taxes". There are absolutely some people doing this, but you are making up connections and this is a lazy talking point.
Re: California Considers Doubling Its Taxes
#88> to fund a first-in-the-nation single-payer health-care system. This is key here. So instead of paying this out to a private insurance company I pay it in taxes, there by my actual change is net zero, in most cases. I have a feeling most reactions might be headline driven here. I think it’s worth doing the math on how much it costs you in healthcare coverage before really judging a book by its cover here. If my comp…
> my actual change is net zero Really? From what I can find on the internet, CA state income taxes are usually in the 10% range for most folks. Are you really paying 10% of your income for health insurance? I'm paying about 2.5% right now.
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Re: California Considers Doubling Its Taxes
#89I do not believe single-payer is a good idea, but then lots of people DO seem to think it is, and the state is probably the best level at which to conduct an experiment this way. As a Californian, I'll be happy to see the experiment conducted, sad that it happens in my state, and excited to be a guinea pig. My only hope if we do this is that the federal govt or other states do not leap quickly into this and give it a…
Why do you believe single-payer is a bad idea? The model works very well in most European countries.
not sure why you're getting downvoted, came here to say exactly that.
European countries (including the UK - actually one of the best examples of single payer health care) figured out that having a healthy population is a matter of national security, so it gets funded the same way.
Re: California Considers Doubling Its Taxes
#90Honestly this is a great sign IMO. Rather than forcing this kind of system on a nation-wide scale, something that would undoubtedly make a lot of people unhappy for a bunch of different reasons, we can trial this kind of system on a smaller scale and see how it goes. Obviously the good people of California are okay with paying high taxes, and this is just the kind of thing that the majority of CA people seem to want from their policy makers, as they are repeatedly elected, so it seems pretty perfect to me.
I, personally, am very happy with my employer health insurance and am glad that I left CA for a state with no income tax, but for the people remaining in CA it sounds great.
If this ends up happening Americans will have the ability to choose to live in a place with universal healthcare or not while still living in the US, which is pretty cool IMO.