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Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

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Re: Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

#731
post #672

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With GDPR you could just send them a formless deletion request. There are good parts in GDPR for sure.

GDPR is an EU law and does not have legal legs in the US.

Depends. Do they have EU citizens in their database? GDPR is an EU law that applies to EU citizens around the world, including the US. If you are a non-EU citizen, you can't claim GDPR of course. If you are an EU citizen, you can claim GDPR regardless of the residence of the company AFAIK.

Enforcement of GDPR is a different matter. I am not sure whom I'd complain to, other than my representative in the European parliament. I could probably sue them though, if I found my data there and they refused to comply with my GDPR request.

Re: Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

#732
post #619

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The extra friction is probably a feature: https://assets.equifax.com/wfs/theworknumber/assets/twn_Empl ... (the exif data on that PDF shows the name of the employee that created it and that they used Word 2010...) I don't get it. how is "PDF shows the name of the employee that created it and that they used Word 2010" relevant to the claim that "extra friction is probably a feature"?

Just speculating here, but I wonder if their point is that they went out of their way to create a PDF that is as unusable as possible, and that Word 2010 is somehow required to create such a PDF. A few simpler explanations: - Equifax IT hasn't rolled out modern O365 apps - The form was created a long time ago, and has not been updated Regardless of the exif data, I do believe that friction is absolutely a feature in…

Probably it's buried in a ticket deep in the feature requests lists and has zero potential revenue impact (or negative) so it isn't prioritized.

Re: Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

#733
post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If it means the economy will grow slower, so be it. This is easy for someone to say who already lives a comfortable life. Credit is simply a more efficient use of wealth. Without credit, money stored is money that is unused, and thus money denied to everyone else. Everyone is poorer as a result because you have millions of people willing to exchange their goods and services but are blocked because they lack a medium…

And with credit, money lent out is money that doesn't actually exist until made real by repayment which must come from extracting value from this planet at ever increasing unsustainable rates, and there's always the risk it won't ever be realized at all in case of defaults. Credit creates money out of nowhere, effectively imposing a tax on everyone and making them poorer so that banks can extract profits. The massive…

>And with credit, money lent out is money that doesn't actually exist until made real by repayment which must come from extracting value from this planet at ever increasing unsustainable rates.

You couldn't be more wrong here. Credit creates new money. The money doesn't get destroyed again until either the credit gets paid off or the lender defaults.

The Earth's resources don't magically spring into the air when someone takes a loan. If consumption is indeed unsustainable, it's because that's what people want. Industrialization is what's destroying the earth, people who lived in countries with bad economics like the Soviet Union wanted to industrialize just as much as capitalist nations, if not more so. They drained half the Aral Sea just to provide their textile factories with cotton. It just happened that they were so bad at industrializing that they polluted and consumed less. People caring about the environment is only possible in world with enough surplus to worry about it.

>Credit creates money out of nowhere, effectively imposing a tax on everyone and making them poorer so that banks can extract profits

Again, complete nonsense. Alice takes a loan for Bob to build a home. The value of the money created with the loan comes from the new home that Bob built. Banks aren't extracting profits from diluted money, they get paid for providing financial services. Sometimes, they offer financial services for bullshit, but just means that the government should implement better policy.

Re: Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

#734
post #733

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And with credit, money lent out is money that doesn't actually exist until made real by repayment which must come from extracting value from this planet at ever increasing unsustainable rates, and there's always the risk it won't ever be realized at all in case of defaults. Credit creates money out of nowhere, effectively imposing a tax on everyone and making them poorer so that banks can extract profits. The massive…

>And with credit, money lent out is money that doesn't actually exist until made real by repayment which must come from extracting value from this planet at ever increasing unsustainable rates. You couldn't be more wrong here. Credit creates new money. The money doesn't get destroyed again until either the credit gets paid off or the lender defaults. The Earth's resources don't magically spring into the air when some…

> You couldn't be more wrong here. Credit creates new money. The money doesn't get destroyed again until either the credit gets paid off or the lender defaults.

That is exactly what I said. This new money doesn't actually exist. It's backed by nothing until someone creates real value and repays the loan.

> The Earth's resources don't magically spring into the air when someone takes a loan.

Of course not. People work to extract as much value as possible. Exponential growth.

> If consumption is indeed unsustainable, it's because that's what people want.

Who doesn't want to grow expontentially? My whole point is it's not sustainable.

> Again, complete nonsense. Alice takes a loan for Bob to build a home. The value of the money created with the loan comes from the new home that Bob built. Banks aren't extracting profits from diluted money, they get paid for providing financial services.

Alice takes out a loan at the bank. Alice pays Bob for services. Bob deposits money at bank. That same money is loaned out again. Eventually it makes its way back to the bank again. And gets loaned out again. And on and on.

In this manner $100 easily turns into $1,000 or $10,000 or $100,000. Fake money that doesn't exist until all of those loans are repaid in full. And in order to repay, things need to happen, businesses need to be started, value needs to be created, money needs to be made, the economy must grow exponentially, and in doing so it creates even more loans which creates even more fake money driving even more growth. If the music ever stops for any reason, it's all over.

Re: Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

#735
post #672

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GDPR is an EU law and does not have legal legs in the US.

Depends. Do they have EU citizens in their database? GDPR is an EU law that applies to EU citizens around the world, including the US. If you are a non-EU citizen, you can't claim GDPR of course. If you are an EU citizen, you can claim GDPR regardless of the residence of the company AFAIK. Enforcement of GDPR is a different matter. I am not sure whom I'd complain to, other than my representative in the European parli…

GDPR works the opposite of how you think it does. EU residents can claim rights under GDPR regardless of citizenship, and EU citizens in other countries are granted no protections. (I'm not sure about how it works for people whose location is transient, e.g. people on vacations.)

Companies outside of the EU can become subject to GDPR by targeting EU residents. You can always raise a complaint to the data privacy regulator for the EU country where you currently reside, and GDPR has a mechanism to forward that to the relevant authority.

Re: Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

#736

NOTE: It is possible to freeze access to your employment data here: https://employees.theworknumber.com/employee-data-freeze That being said, it doesn't stop employers from continuing to hand Equifax your data on a gold platter, and therefore does nothing to protect you from the inevitable data breach that will result in Equifax being required to give everyone affected $0.36 or one year of free credit monitoring.

But, I didn't opt in for them to have this information about me to begin with.

theworknumber.com is yet another symptom of a much larger problem in that it is currently impractical for a regular person to enforce their rights via the court system.

According to Peter Thiel “If you’re a single-digit millionaire like Hulk Hogan, you have no effective access to our legal system...” https://theintercept.com/2016/10/31/trump-fan-peter-thiel-sa... So never-mind the non-millionaires.

However it is really nice to see efforts by some regular people out there setting up services such as https://yourdigitalrights.org which is the service I just used to request my information from Equifax. It will be interesting to see what comes of it. I suppose if they do not respond in 45 days I'll file a complaint with the CA Attorney General to put yet another ping regarding Equifax on their radar. https://oag.ca.gov/contact/consumer-complaint-against-busine...

This shows that ultimately it is the regular people who drive progress, while the powerful and the wealthy just take credit for it.

Ultimately United States will transition to European-style privacy laws when it comes to private information like income and these credit agencies will be abolished, but the way to get there is for the regular non-millionaire people to exercise whatever "rights" they kinda have to ultimately get these annoyances shut down.

Re: Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

#737

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think we can remove all debt without stopping the economy? That’s simply not how business works. IOU’s are the oil that grease the economic machine. Personal debt, when used wisely, can supercharge a life. Buying that first car, a house, going to uni. It can change the trajectory of the person for the better. Debt-fueled investments like startups and property improvements are another example. Shakespeare was n…

How could it not grease the economy? It's literally money conjured up from thin air. Would be weird if it didn't. It's an illusion. Until loans get repaid they're just inflating the money supply. Can't get a job after college in order to pay $200k in student loans? Lost the job? People literally end up homeless or worse. That's like saying gambling on futures with 100x leverage can supercharge a life. Yeah, I'll get…

Debt is necessary to invest if you don’t have sufficient savings. To say that we can do away with debt is the opinion of someone who both:

- already has a good stash of resources, and

- is incapable of seeing the point of view of a poor person.

Also, all debt is very much not magic money. Most debt represents very real, hard value. Businesses routinely provide goods and services to each other with 90 or even 180 days to pay.

You’re confusing all debt with speculation and irresponsible borrowing.

If some Americans want to borrow $200k to study an arts degree, does that mean all debt is evil?

If somebody somewhere overeats, does this mean humanity should swear off calories?

Re: Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

#738

NOTE: It is possible to freeze access to your employment data here: https://employees.theworknumber.com/employee-data-freeze That being said, it doesn't stop employers from continuing to hand Equifax your data on a gold platter, and therefore does nothing to protect you from the inevitable data breach that will result in Equifax being required to give everyone affected $0.36 or one year of free credit monitoring.

Or send them a CCPA data deletion request: https://yourdigitalrights.org/d/equifax.com . This will generate a request email. You can then change the wordings to indicate that you are interested in deleting your salary history data. Disclaimer: I'm one of the creators of YourDigitalRights.org.

Great site, I just used your service to email "Right to Access Request (Section 110 of the CCPA)" to Equifax.

Question / suggestion -- Have you considered monetizing by allowing lawyers specializing in CCPA / consumer privacy issues to advertise on your site?

Re: Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

#739

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Capitalism generally happens successfully in societies with laws. The difference with socialism is the state both defines the laws and decides how to allocate resources, which tends to result in a lot of poverty.

Government isn't an outside entity. Government is the people--except in a capitalist country where government is owned by corporations.

By your logic, corporations are people too

Re: Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

#740

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please stick to intelligent discussion. I didn't specify an alternative model for a good reason, it doesn't exist yet. But your attempt to pre-empt that the only possible alternative is Chinese style state-sponsered capitalism illustrates the paucity of your imagination or the malice of your intentions

> I didn't specify an alternative model for a good reason, it doesn't exist yet. There are plenty of alternatives to what the US does. You can see them in other politically and economically advanced countries, which achieve far better results. You can see them in relatively recent US history.

by all accounts those "other" advanced countries offer a better socioeconomy model for how to organize things. The (recent) US is really an outlier that makes no sense whatsoever.

But there is a weakness in this view, namely the enormous security (and energy) dependency of those "other" countries on the US. It is a coupled system, making it hard to isolate what the standalone merits of the various modelw

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