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Procrastinatory Doom Loops

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Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#201

Post by zhynn »

300bps wrote: post #195
zhynn wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It took me until I was 45 to finally get screened. I really wish I had done it sooner, it is not that rough. But I said the exact same thing when I bumped into this notion. I was quite resistant to the idea, which is itself a fascinating mental knot to untie.

What has changed for you since being screened?

Primarily: medication Secondarily: being able to have a short hand category for looking up strategies to handle my own challenges and finding a sympathetic community of people with eerily similar challenges.

The medication has been surprising. I have all my life thought that I had anxiety. So I did various compensating behaviors to manage the anxiety. I now know that I was anxious because of my ADHD behaviors, and addressing the anxiety made things tolerable, but didn't really deal with the underlying problem. I am a curious person. I will hyper-focus on rabbit holes, which is a super power when you are hooked on a relevant problem. But if I should be doing work, but I am hyper focused on something interesting but irrelevant (like, for example, the history and usage of the Shopsmith woodworking multi-tool), it creates anxiety because I should be working.

The drugs are helping me control my focus better, which is something I have never been able to do. I just had to ride the current before, but now I feel like I have some control of the current.

It's not perfect, I am still sorting things out, I have only been on this path for a few months.

I think that "ADHD" is poorly named, because I don't think of my hyper-focus as "hyperactivity". And I don't really think I have "Attention Deficit", so much as difficulty controlling where my attention is directed.

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#202

Post by randallsquared »

pbrb wrote: post #189
hfourm wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good stuff. I have lived with ADHD as long as I remember. Going on and off prescriptions. Adult ADHD has mostly revolved around depression/mood swing cycles of hyper focus and motivation (new interesting project/work, new job) and procrastination, lack of focus, and depression caused by that feeling of know I should be doing X but not being able to bring myself to. I have some coping techniques and it isn't something…

Exactly the same for me. I'm currently in the "I know I should be doing X but not being able to bring myself to" cycle on a piece of a major project. It's not hard work, I know how to do it, but I just cannot do it. I was diagnosed with ADHD as a child, and have avoided the medication my whole life. Recently, I decided to try Adderall. It's like magic to be honest, and has helped tremendously in multiple ways. I can…

> It's like magic to be honest

For nearly everyone, if I understand correctly, ADHD or no.

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#203

Post by romwell »

mgdv wrote: post #101

I have the same but it feels more like a type of paralysis rather than a loop. I'm finding the more I'm mentally trying to multi task, the worse this gets I can only do one task deeply at a time but while doing that, I will think and worry about other tasks that need to be done. This stops me from what I am working on, leaving it half way and starting something else. When I reach a point when two or more tasks compet…

FYI, you are describing ADHD symptoms:

>I have the same but it feels more like a type of paralysis rather than a loop

See: "ADHD Paralysis"[1]

>I can only do one task deeply at a time but while doing that, I will think and worry about other tasks that need to be done. This stops me from what I am working on, leaving it half way and starting something else. When I reach a point when two or more tasks compete for my attention (or someone drops something on my plate) I feel locked up.

See: "Executive Dysfunction" [2]

>The best thing I've found is to capture tasks as soon as I get them and try to ignore things until my current task is done. Otherwise, I drift of into mindless scrolling

See: ADHD switches[3]

I've been beating myself up for 30 years over this stuff, until I learned that I'm very much not alone - and that ADHD doesn't mean what the name says (it's named awfully[4]).

[1] https://romankogan.net/adhd/#ADHD%20Paralysis

[2] https://romankogan.net/adhd/#Executive%20Dysfunction

[3] https://romankogan.net/adhd/#ADHD%20Switches

[4] https://romankogan.net/adhd/#Awfully%20Described%20Human%20D...

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#204

Post by romwell »

ultra_nick wrote: post #149
romwell wrote: post #143

>I do tasks on three timescales: they either get done immediately, after a shamefully massive delay, or not at all. There’s little in-between. To anyone relating: that's an ADHD symptom. It falls under the umbrella of Executive Dysfunction[1]. I have been beating myself up for it all my life, and turns out there are many things that work differently for people with ADHD - and many things that help (from medication[2]…

Extra points if you beg yourself or a higher power to please let you start the task that "isn't even that hard".

Yup. I call them "small tasks"[1]. They're hell.

[1] https://romankogan.net/adhd/#Small%20Tasks

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#205

Post by romwell »

hhmc wrote: post #158
romwell wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found myself relating to these particular three articles a lot . Then, last year, I have learned about ADHD - and, to my surprise, realized I'm a textbook example. There are a lot of resources available for us, and ways to do things differently. If you relate to WaitButWhy, check this out: https://romankogan.net/adhd/ And if you find yourself scrolling and relating - there's a good change your life will drastically…

You don't need to reply to every comment with a link to your site.

FYI, I'm not posting "the" link to my site. I'm linking to the specific posts I've written that directly relate to the comments I am responding to. I believe my writing is useful in such cases - not in the least because people have directly reached out to me to say thanks.

Just trying to increase the chances that someone stumbles upon something that helps them. I don't see many people talking about ADHD here.

If public awareness of ADHD was anywhere where it needs to be, I wouldn't have spent 34 years living without help.

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#206

Post by derekdahmer »

jacquesm wrote: post #98
VBprogrammer wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, having seen some of what you have done in the past, it seems almost absurd to think of you struggling with procrastination.

That's an interesting observation: yes, I do get stuff done, in the end. But the path to it is usually long, torturous and leads along many places that weren't the destination along the way and plenty of that could be avoided. And quite a few of my achievements are probably the result of procrastinating on something else! I wonder how the real achievers (Fabrice Bellard?) deal with these sort of things. And also: wha…

I can relate to this a lot. The one silver lining of the shameful, interminable hell that is procrastination is the random skills that come out of it.

I was so dysfunctional at my last job during covid-induced WFH I found time to completely redo my backyard, which included tasks like "research sod options, schedule a delivery, learn how to install it and lay it before it dies" which if someone officially assigned me to do I never would have been able to get myself to complete.

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#207

Post by zhynn »

slingnow wrote: post #193
zhynn wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was very defensive when my wife said that I should consider being screened for ADHD, I have the exact experience you do (a the OP) around this stuff. The defensiveness was something that I sorted out, and looking back on things, so many of my "vices" were just self-medication for ADHD. They were mostly coping strategies (with the exception of some social vices). My adult diagnosis has been a game changer for me. I…

So to mean it literally, it changed some literal game you were playing. What game did it change and how?

My game was:

  - follow my curiosity
  - take advantage of times when my curiosity and focus aligned with work
  - manage the anxiety that came as a consequence of focusing on things I shouldn't be.
My new game is:

  - channel my curiosity to solve relevant problems (get distracted sometimes, but not near as much as I used to)
  - since I am more in control of my own focus, my anxiety is dramatically reduced, so I don't require as aggressive management of it as I used to (binge sessions to decompress, chemicals (alcohol, nicotine), meditation and breath practice.  I still do the meditation and breathing, as I like it and feel like it is a net positive, but I don't need it to tame the demons.

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#208

Post by romwell »

thoughtpeddler wrote: post #155
romwell wrote: post #143

>I do tasks on three timescales: they either get done immediately, after a shamefully massive delay, or not at all. There’s little in-between. To anyone relating: that's an ADHD symptom. It falls under the umbrella of Executive Dysfunction[1]. I have been beating myself up for it all my life, and turns out there are many things that work differently for people with ADHD - and many things that help (from medication[2]…

I wouldn't so quickly jump to "that's an ADHD symptom". I know many people inarguably not ADHD who exhibit similar task timescales. I don't want to discount the fact that this can be a hallmark symptom of ADHD for those that truly have/are ADHD. However, some part of this reaction is over-pathologization. It's increasingly accepted that ADHD is over-diagnosed [1] [2] [3], and I feel that this task timescale concept a…

>I wouldn't so quickly jump to "that's an ADHD symptom". I know many people inarguably not ADHD who exhibit similar task timescales.

Well that's exactly the difference between a symptom and a diagnosis.

ADHD has overlap with other conditions, and any one symptom/trait is insufficient to say "it's ADHD". Executive Dysfunction can also be a symptom of ASD, anxiety disorders, burnout, etc.

One needs to relate to many symptoms/traits to make any conclusions. The links I posted are a PSA to raise awareness.

>It's increasingly accepted that ADHD is over-diagnosed

I have been diagnosed last year, aged 34. ADHD may be over-diagnosed in some groups, but it is most certainly under-diagnosed in others (particularly, women with inattentive type ADHD)[1].

[1] https://www.additudemag.com/adhd-in-women-misunderstood-symp...

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#209

Post by alx__ »

romwell wrote: post #143

>I do tasks on three timescales: they either get done immediately, after a shamefully massive delay, or not at all. There’s little in-between. To anyone relating: that's an ADHD symptom. It falls under the umbrella of Executive Dysfunction[1]. I have been beating myself up for it all my life, and turns out there are many things that work differently for people with ADHD - and many things that help (from medication[2]…

In my experience getting an adult ADHD diagnosis is a long process. Especially if you've never looked into it. After getting lost in the process last year. Re-attempting this year, i'm again stalled as they want my anxiety/depression scores to drop before testing for ADHD. So don't give up, when the system puts up walls. I assume this is due to the potential addiction side-affects for the drugs (stimulants) for non-ADHD folks

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#210

Post by romwell »

thom wrote: post #165
thoughtpeddler wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't so quickly jump to "that's an ADHD symptom". I know many people inarguably not ADHD who exhibit similar task timescales. I don't want to discount the fact that this can be a hallmark symptom of ADHD for those that truly have/are ADHD. However, some part of this reaction is over-pathologization. It's increasingly accepted that ADHD is over-diagnosed [1] [2] [3], and I feel that this task timescale concept a…

I know dozens of people in my life that exhibit most or all of the symptoms described in one of the parent's links, but I wouldn't diagnose them with anything more serious than 'parenthood'.

The symptoms I described manifest in absence of any external stress. That's what makes them symptoms.

The first question to ask about those is whether they have been present since childhood.

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