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Procrastinatory Doom Loops

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Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#171

Post by thenerdhead »

Unlike other comments, I don't think this is always associated to ADHD. Rather, I think this is a natural tendency for the current normal hivemind of always being distracted at work.

John Cleese in his book about creativity talks about how procrastination is actually our natural ability to be most creative. If we are leaving something until the last minute, it often means we don't really have a great solution or don't have enough time to think about it. Even if we do have a solution in mind, leaving it till the very last minute gives us enough time for other ideas to come up.

This seems to be a recurring problem in knowledge work where a large effort that has "deadlines" tends to keep being missed. The cause? Not having enough slack or diffused time to just think. Often it's juggling the task ontop of a thousand others and being constantly distracted.

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#172

Post by Mezzie »

thom wrote: post #165
thoughtpeddler wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't so quickly jump to "that's an ADHD symptom". I know many people inarguably not ADHD who exhibit similar task timescales. I don't want to discount the fact that this can be a hallmark symptom of ADHD for those that truly have/are ADHD. However, some part of this reaction is over-pathologization. It's increasingly accepted that ADHD is over-diagnosed [1] [2] [3], and I feel that this task timescale concept a…

I know dozens of people in my life that exhibit most or all of the symptoms described in one of the parent's links, but I wouldn't diagnose them with anything more serious than 'parenthood'.

My executive function fluctuates with my anxiety and stress levels, and it's also well-recorded that poverty/chronic stress do pretty terrible things to executive function. I'd guess that 'being on 24/7 to make sure the little humans don't die' could produce similar results, particularly given the sleep deprivation. Just a constant focus on the 'now' and immediate dangers/issues vs. planning and the future.

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#173

Post by Mezzie »

300bps wrote: post #167
romwell wrote: post #143

>I do tasks on three timescales: they either get done immediately, after a shamefully massive delay, or not at all. There’s little in-between. To anyone relating: that's an ADHD symptom. It falls under the umbrella of Executive Dysfunction[1]. I have been beating myself up for it all my life, and turns out there are many things that work differently for people with ADHD - and many things that help (from medication[2]…

Just want to point out - one can have symptoms of a disorder that don't rise to the level of a disorder. I have what OP describes like crazy, I beat myself up over it frequently and think I need to do better. Yet somehow I keep getting glowing reviews at work and even just got promoted without asking. So don't automatically think, "omg I do that too! I need medication." Start to worry if it has a substantial negative…

It also can NOT be ADHD but can be executive dysfunction. Important because things like anxiety can also cause these issues, and generally stimulants aren't a great idea for anxious people. (Unless the anxiety IS caused by ADHD... humans are weird.)

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#174

Post by Mezzie »

thenerdhead wrote: post #171

Unlike other comments, I don't think this is always associated to ADHD. Rather, I think this is a natural tendency for the current normal hivemind of always being distracted at work. John Cleese in his book about creativity talks about how procrastination is actually our natural ability to be most creative. If we are leaving something until the last minute, it often means we don't really have a great solution or don'…

> John Cleese in his book about creativity talks about how procrastination is actually our natural ability to be most creative. If we are leaving something until the last minute, it often means we don't really have a great solution or don't have enough time to think about it. Even if we do have a solution in mind, leaving it till the very last minute gives us enough time for other ideas to come up.

YES. This is why I don't code as a job; to me, coding is a creative exercise and I just hate doing creative things for a living. (I've supported myself/made money with both development work and fiction writing.) I can't force myself to be creative on a deadline, and if I rush something through without giving my brain enough time to think through it, it bothers me because there might be a better way and I get annoyed if I'm forced to give out work that isn't my best.

> Often it's juggling the task ontop of a thousand others and being constantly distracted.

Yes. How the hell am I supposed to problem solve if I'm never allowed any time to think or allowed to make mistakes, explore, etc?

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#176

Post by _notathrowaway »

Mezzie wrote: post #174
thenerdhead wrote: post #171

Unlike other comments, I don't think this is always associated to ADHD. Rather, I think this is a natural tendency for the current normal hivemind of always being distracted at work. John Cleese in his book about creativity talks about how procrastination is actually our natural ability to be most creative. If we are leaving something until the last minute, it often means we don't really have a great solution or don'…

> John Cleese in his book about creativity talks about how procrastination is actually our natural ability to be most creative. If we are leaving something until the last minute, it often means we don't really have a great solution or don't have enough time to think about it. Even if we do have a solution in mind, leaving it till the very last minute gives us enough time for other ideas to come up. YES. This is why I…

>This is why I don't code as a job

What do you do for a living instead?

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#177

Post by smoothpotato4 »

300bps wrote: post #167
romwell wrote: post #143

>I do tasks on three timescales: they either get done immediately, after a shamefully massive delay, or not at all. There’s little in-between. To anyone relating: that's an ADHD symptom. It falls under the umbrella of Executive Dysfunction[1]. I have been beating myself up for it all my life, and turns out there are many things that work differently for people with ADHD - and many things that help (from medication[2]…

Just want to point out - one can have symptoms of a disorder that don't rise to the level of a disorder. I have what OP describes like crazy, I beat myself up over it frequently and think I need to do better. Yet somehow I keep getting glowing reviews at work and even just got promoted without asking. So don't automatically think, "omg I do that too! I need medication." Start to worry if it has a substantial negative…

Doing well at work is not an indication that you don’t have ADHD. Plenty of people with ADHD are perfectionists and overachievers, even those without medication.

“Having a negative impact on your life” can be about more than just whether you perform well at work, it can be about how you feel about yourself and how you take care of yourself. I agree, medication is not always the answer. But that doesn’t mean it’s not worthwhile to learn more about ADHD for those who have symptoms. Just understanding more about ADHD can help people develop coping habits to work with their brains instead of against them.

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#178

Post by 300bps »

smoothpotato4 wrote: post #177
300bps wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just want to point out - one can have symptoms of a disorder that don't rise to the level of a disorder. I have what OP describes like crazy, I beat myself up over it frequently and think I need to do better. Yet somehow I keep getting glowing reviews at work and even just got promoted without asking. So don't automatically think, "omg I do that too! I need medication." Start to worry if it has a substantial negative…

Doing well at work is not an indication that you don’t have ADHD. Plenty of people with ADHD are perfectionists and overachievers, even those without medication. “Having a negative impact on your life” can be about more than just whether you perform well at work, it can be about how you feel about yourself and how you take care of yourself. I agree, medication is not always the answer. But that doesn’t mean it’s not…

Doing well at work is not an indication that you don’t have ADHD.

Of course it is. Maybe if you changed "indication" to "guarantee" I would agree with you but as it is that sentence is objectively wrong.

And of course there are other factors. I've definitely had symptoms of ADHD my entire life but once again that doesn't mean it rises to the level of a diagnosable disorder.

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#179

Post by Mezzie »

copperx wrote: post #2

That's me. And still in the same loop after several ADHD medications; this makes me think that it's not something that can be solved by a pill. I hope I can solve this someday. My coping mechanism is to never commit to anything (outside work obligations).

Have you considered anxiety as a cause? It can cause similar issues but giving it ADHD meds is a BAD TIME.

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#180

Post by Insanity »

mlatu wrote: post #53
jaw wrote: post #18

Reminds me of the tale in this podcast [1] where the guy's desire to avoid a difficult conversation spiraled into totally ghosting his employer for two weeks. It's a really tough tendency to fight. One thing I think is helpful is to acknowledge failure as early as possible. If meeting the deadline would require me to work faster than normal or make some heroic last-minute effort, I've already failed, even if that dea…

in my experience, if you tell your boss you're not going to make a deadline, their reaction is not "dont worry" but "yes you will" of course ymmv. had only 5/6 such bosses. the only one that wasnt like that, was not in software but a little shop selling custom built computers and i was a teenager back then, so that might have made it a little easier on me too

YMMV indeed, I have not encountered that yet, and have definitely missed initial deadlines.

But some things help - when giving estimates or timelines, I go through my usual charade of "they are guestimates, usually you should double or triple them, the further out they go the less likely they are accurate etc".

Also, I promise I will monitor progress, keep them up to date, and let them know as soon as possible when plans deviate. I also discuss backup plans early (cutting features or pushing back, starting with pilots and tests, etc..)

It has worked pretty well for me so far. Not to say it's _just_ about how you handle the situation, you can have a shitty manager, that part is out of your control unfortunately.. :)

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