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Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

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Re: Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

#651

Post by matheusmoreira »

basseq wrote: post #636
shmatt wrote: post #618

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the issue is - do companies who give them information also get access to it for people outside their org Others have wrote this in the thread, but anecdotally I once tried to push up what I considered a low ball offer, and lied about my current comp. HR quickly said - no, thats not your current comp I'm pretty sure they didn't reach out to my current company to ask, so the only other option was abusing a syst…

I very much doubt it. The "Salary data is for sale" title is misleading; There's no way for me to go pay Equifax for access to u/shmatt's data. They might have some aggregate datasets for sale, removing PII. The same goes for credit data; you (largely) can't run a credit check on me without my permission. This is an HR service to ease the burden of legitimate requests for employment or salary data that you, as an emp…

> you (largely) can't run a credit check on me without my permission

In my country there are forums where every once in a while a guy with access to these credit systems shows up and starts literally taking requests. People post names and he reveals everything about the person's credit history. For free and in the open.

Wouldn't be surprised if it was just as easy in the US for some bank or employer to look up your entire financial history.

Re: Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

#652

Post by caskstrength »

streamofdigits wrote: post #453
andresp wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who bash capitalism after the last century of expansion should just be considered negationists at this point. Sure it is not perfect but it's infinitely better than any other economic model available.

people who defend capitalism on the face of the last century's (and ongoing) environmental disaster should just be considered negationist at this point. Sure is not all wrong but it's infinitely worse than any economic model that actually secures a sustainable future

Yes, good thing we had USSR and still have China that were (is) very environment-conscious!

Re: Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

#653

Post by nafizh »

ok_dad wrote: post #526

Quoted post unavailable.

Clearly, you haven't lived under a authoritarian government. I have, and I live in US now. I don't have to think more than one second which one I would prefer between US and China. And I am aware US is plagued with every kind of problem at every level.

Re: Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

#654

Post by Dave_Rosenthal »

onion2k wrote: post #408
Dave_Rosenthal wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In practice future salaries are heavily based on current ones because that is what the new employer is de facto negotiating against. Very few people, in my experience, are willing to entertain a new job with a salary much lower than their last one. And very few employers are willing to 'leave money on the table' and offer more than they think they need to close the candidate simply because the candidate thinks they h…

The downside is that this clearly signals to the employer that you weren't making very much before and you are fishing for a big raise. Calling it "fishing for a big raise" sounds like you're trying to scam a higher salary out of an employer. That just isn't true. There's no reason to think you're worth less just because your previous employer sucked. Salary negotiation is about finding an amount that the employer an…

Yes, it's a negotiation and the negotiation is bounded on one side by 'what the job/employee is worth to the employer' and the other side by 'what the employee is willing to accept.' My point is that your previous salary strongly dictates the latter and thus heavily affects the negotiation.

And if you don't like the 'fishing for a raise' terminology we can instead just say that it signals that you don't think your previous salary is a strong point in your negotiation. So now the prospective employer doesn't know your salary, but suspects that the negotiation window is quite wide.

Re: Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

#656

Post by voltagedivider »

nocardium wrote: post #257
vulcan01 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need to. Your employer can give this info to whoever they want, and many give this data to Equifax or one of the other credit agencies. Also, you might give your bank employment details, and your bank will most likely send that info to a credit agency as well. There's not much of an escape.

If I bundle my personal information together into an nft and then buy that nft, could I issue the credit agency with a DMCA takedown notice?

Aren't NFTs essentially just file hashes/signatures that can be associated with a public/private key pair on a blockchain? If so, the link between the NFT and the key pair might be solid (as in cryptographically secure) but the link between the NFT and its "underlying asset" (which might be copyrightable) seems flimsy.

That being said, since both NFT ownership and our legal systems rely on consensus and majority opinion, it's not hard to imagine a corrupt society in which the opinion of judges is disregarded in favor of blockchain consensus.

Edit: you might be joking but it's an interesting question nonetheless because it highlights how various systems compete for legitimacy :)

Re: Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

#657

Post by Dave_Rosenthal »

doix wrote: post #304
Dave_Rosenthal wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In practice future salaries are heavily based on current ones because that is what the new employer is de facto negotiating against. Very few people, in my experience, are willing to entertain a new job with a salary much lower than their last one. And very few employers are willing to 'leave money on the table' and offer more than they think they need to close the candidate simply because the candidate thinks they h…

> This kind of goes against conventional wisdom, but I actually don't think that switching jobs is the strongest time to ask for more money. I think it's after you have gotten into a role, are killing it, and adding crazy value to the company. That's when you actually have a lot of leverage to say 'hey, I love what I'm doing here and I should be paid a lot more'. Out of curiosity, has that worked for you? My previous…

Yes, it's both worked for me and I've also managed many, many people in orgs who have proven very valuable to the company and had their comp doubled or more. Most people are not bold enough in negotiation for their own good once they are entrenched at a company. You need to create a relationship with the person who can make such a thing happen. If it's not your direct boss, then find the person up the food chain who can make such a thing happen.

Re: Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

#658

Post by mistrial9 »

basseq wrote: post #649
mistrial9 wrote: post #642

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you (largely) can't run a credit check on me without my permission that is LOL incorrect. I know a car sales department lead, a licensed real estate broker who is also a rental apartment owner, and multiple small business owners that I suspect can all snoop on my US credit record pretty much at will. The second part of that is that each and every one of those people do lie on signed documents routinely, which appar…

Notwithstanding bad actors, the federal Fair Credit Reporting Act (FCRA) requires[1], among other things: 1. Only business entities with a specific, legitimate purpose can request / access a credit report. 2. Consent must be provided depending on use case. "Soft pulls" (e.g., pre-screened CC offers) can be done without your consent. (You can opt out of these.) A dealership finance office or lease broker would absolut…

> Notwithstanding bad actors

Isn't this a huge point developing here now? that in consumer finance, those who run the show routinely are shown cheating overall. What is the gain/pain ratio on cheating in consumer finance? The list of legal requirements and safeguards seem to get longer at the same time as cheating on them gets more common.

I am not at all convinced that the consumer is protected here. Multiple avenues -- some offshore using agents who operate blatantly outside the law, and secondly accountants and admins who get numb to daily cheating, and do more of it. I will go full YOLO and add that I think the waves of pain killer abuse and common alcohol culture, directly contribute to norms of low-level cheating over money like this, especially where it is "just data" and not actual money moving around.

Re: Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

#659

Post by drorco »

dtwest wrote: post #621
piva00 wrote: post #598

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate hearing this argument. Simply because I'm living proof of the opposite: I'm not a native Swede, I immigrated here, I integrated into society by looking at its values, identifying with most of them and sharing those forward. I became a Swede and it has nothing to do with being born Nordic or into a homogeneous culture. This hand-waving argument on why America is exceptional is really misplaced. America has issu…

You make some fair points about money and mistrust but the parent's argument is not unfair. You mention that you "became a Swede" by adopting Sweden's values. America doesn't have one unified set of values due to being so big. Sweden is smaller than Ohio by population. Ohioans generally share some values, but they are quite different than people in Massachusetts or Mississippi. America is closer to the EU's scale, an…

Like dtwest says, you have embraced the local culture.

If someone from let's say, a rural village in central Asia, will immigrate to Sweden and will hold on to their original culture, I doubt the average Swedish guy will be as happy to pay that guy's medical bills, the same way they'd do for someone who does holds a similar culture.

Re: Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

#660

Post by spdcbr »

mcculley wrote: post #641

A few years ago there was a startup called Paysa. You searched by employer and it showed you the salaries of each job title. My company was small enough that it made it easy to see the salary of many of my employees. We did not initially understand where that data came from. I did not leak it. We put together that each leaked salary was of someone who had recently applied for a mortgage or auto loan. Read the fine pr…

What are my options though? I can't opt out of them selling my data, can I?
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