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Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

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Re: Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

#641

Post by mcculley »

A few years ago there was a startup called Paysa. You searched by employer and it showed you the salaries of each job title. My company was small enough that it made it easy to see the salary of many of my employees. We did not initially understand where that data came from. I did not leak it. We put together that each leaked salary was of someone who had recently applied for a mortgage or auto loan.

Read the fine print next time you attach a paystub to a loan application. They are likely selling your data to aggregators.

Re: Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

#642

Post by mistrial9 »

basseq wrote: post #636
shmatt wrote: post #618

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the issue is - do companies who give them information also get access to it for people outside their org Others have wrote this in the thread, but anecdotally I once tried to push up what I considered a low ball offer, and lied about my current comp. HR quickly said - no, thats not your current comp I'm pretty sure they didn't reach out to my current company to ask, so the only other option was abusing a syst…

I very much doubt it. The "Salary data is for sale" title is misleading; There's no way for me to go pay Equifax for access to u/shmatt's data. They might have some aggregate datasets for sale, removing PII. The same goes for credit data; you (largely) can't run a credit check on me without my permission. This is an HR service to ease the burden of legitimate requests for employment or salary data that you, as an emp…

> you (largely) can't run a credit check on me without my permission

that is LOL incorrect. I know a car sales department lead, a licensed real estate broker who is also a rental apartment owner, and multiple small business owners that I suspect can all snoop on my US credit record pretty much at will. The second part of that is that each and every one of those people do lie on signed documents routinely, which apparently is normal.

Re: Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

#643

Post by nip »

programmertote wrote: post #610
nip wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shameless plug [1] that hopefully provides value: simplePDF.eu [2] will allow you to fill it in more easily (the fields are already set) [1] It's a side-project of mine [2] https://www.simplepdf.eu/editor?open=https://assets.equifax....

Just making sure, the site will NOT save the data that I entered in the PDF? Thank you for sharing your side-project!

You’re welcome!

Indeed, the website will NOT save the data that you entered in the PDF.

In fact neither the data you enter nor the PDF that gets loaded is ever seen by my server: everything happens locally (including the actual PDF generation) [1]

Privacy is one of the key distinctive feature of simplePDF

—

The only thing that is saved is a fingerprint of the document that allows to match the field types and their respective positions (x,y, type of field, width, height…)

If you want to see it in action:

1. Download the Equifax form on your computer

2. Navigate here https://simplePDF.eu/editor

3. Load the PDF from your computer

4. Because the document fingerprint is “known”, the field types and positions are automatically retrieved from the server

[1] You may notice that after a browser refresh the data you entered is still there: that’s because it’s saved locally in the local storage of your web browser

—

Unrelated: some people have reported that the save button is not displayed in some cases: trying refreshing the page – I’ll work on a fix as soon as possible

Re: Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

#644

Post by Grustaf »

piva00 wrote: post #599
Grustaf wrote: post #554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK is like Sweden, but Denmark (and Finland) are much more homogenous. And Sweden only retains social trust because it was still homogenous 20 years ago, most people don't realize they essentially live in Rio.

What the fuck are you talking about? I'm a naturalised Swede, coming originally from Brazil, so I have plenty of hands-on experience to both be offended as to ask what the fuck are you talking about because it's a hugely racist take on multiple layers. Let me know exactly your points on how Sweden is essentially Rio, I'd love to hear it.

I'm saying that:

1. Sweden is not the same as Denmark/Finland, it's not homogenous at all anymore, in that sense it's very similar to the UK

2. Social trust is still relatively high in Sweden (because of inertia) but it's eroding very quickly with increased heterogeneity and crime.

There's nothing racist about pointing this out, it's just a fact. Homogenous societies have much higher trust. I don't think this is racial, I think it's cultural.

When you have a very large inflow of people from completely different cultures, mostly with little education and without any ties to the host country, that will obviously create tension, and trust between people of the same culture, that speak the same language, is of course higher than between complete strangers, like a protestant Swede and a Muslim from Syria. Or even a Christian from Syria.

Sweden used to be a very safe country, with little crime and little inequality, and a homogenous culture. Now it's very quickly turning into a very unsafe place, with increasing inequality as immigrants form a huge underclass, while the upper middle classes have profited from exploding house prices, and the rich getting much much richer.

In many locations a majority of children don't speak Swedish at home, school results are plummeting.

Sweden has gone from a country where few people locked their doors to a society where the police recommends you to not wear jewellery in public, women are advised not to walk home alone and home invasions are booming. The well-off build safe rooms and hide in gated communities.

Does any of this sound familiar from Rio?

Re: Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

#645

Post by sixdimensional »

I'm glad to see this here. I found out about this from the employee side when I was asked to interact with the site, and when I dug deeper was shocked with what I saw.

I've been telling friends/colleagues but many didn't honestly believe me.

After I found out about this, I noticed a pattern in new jobs - they always knew exactly what offer to make me that was about 10% higher than my current salary. I mean, the offers were like clockwork. I strongly feel prospective employers were using this information to decide on what offer to make.

I can summarize my feelings about this pretty succinctly.... this is not ok.

Re: Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

#646

Post by astura »

the_only_law wrote: post #251

Don’t worry, just wait for the next outdated struts application to be pwned and it will all be public.

Extremely disingenuous comment, there's no public dump of the Equifax data breach - that information was not made public by whoever accessed it.

To be honest I'd strongly prefer salary information to be more public, it would help me out in my salary negotiations.

Re: Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

#647

Post by Grustaf »

wolverine876 wrote: post #563
Grustaf wrote: post #554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK is like Sweden, but Denmark (and Finland) are much more homogenous. And Sweden only retains social trust because it was still homogenous 20 years ago, most people don't realize they essentially live in Rio.

What is that based on? It seems circular: You blame 'heterogeneity' (a concept based on a myth), it is having no effect, so therefore people just must not realize it. > Rio What do you mean by that?

One reason for the previously very high trust that existed in Sweden is the homogenous population. Everyone spoke the same language, knew the same songs, had the same values. (Other reasons could include protestantism, the cold climate, low crime rates etc).

When the population is becoming very diverse, and as crime is increasing, trust falls. This is not speculation, it is well known. And it's happening in Sweden, it's just trailing behind. People over 40 grew up in one of the safest countries in human history, so it takes time for them to adjust to the new reality. In 30 years, trust in Sweden will approach Rio.

Re: Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

#648

Post by mywittyname »

buro9 wrote: post #348

Salaries are not a secret. Ergo, as employees... Share your salaries. Knowledge is power and if the only entities that have power from knowing salaries are your employers then you have no power. And for people hiring, make hiring decisions that are defensible, equal, and would survive full transparency. Act as if every employee is already sharing salary info, for if they aren't today they will be soon.

Agreed. This information is more dangerous to companies than it is to employees.

If people figured out a way to get this same information for their colleagues to use for salary negotiation, companies would likely stop contributing the data.

Re: Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

#649

Post by basseq »

mistrial9 wrote: post #642
basseq wrote: post #636

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I very much doubt it. The "Salary data is for sale" title is misleading; There's no way for me to go pay Equifax for access to u/shmatt's data. They might have some aggregate datasets for sale, removing PII. The same goes for credit data; you (largely) can't run a credit check on me without my permission. This is an HR service to ease the burden of legitimate requests for employment or salary data that you, as an emp…

> you (largely) can't run a credit check on me without my permission that is LOL incorrect. I know a car sales department lead, a licensed real estate broker who is also a rental apartment owner, and multiple small business owners that I suspect can all snoop on my US credit record pretty much at will. The second part of that is that each and every one of those people do lie on signed documents routinely, which appar…

Notwithstanding bad actors, the federal Fair Credit Reporting Act (FCRA) requires[1], among other things:

1. Only business entities with a specific, legitimate purpose can request / access a credit report.

2. Consent must be provided depending on use case.

"Soft pulls" (e.g., pre-screened CC offers) can be done without your consent. (You can opt out of these.)

A dealership finance office or lease broker would absolutely run your credit, and typically there are explicit forms you sign authorizing such a check as part of that business transaction authorized by you. "At will" checks outside of such transactions would appear to be in violation of FCRA.

Conversely, credit agencies are required to provide you a list of all inquiries upon demand, so you can see if those parties you mention actually are running your credit without your permission.

[1] https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/pdf-0096-fair-credit-r...

Re: Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

#650

Post by haswell »

gruez wrote: post #619
varenc wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow placing a freeze requires filling out a PDF form, attaching a scan of your ID, and then sending it in over email, mail, or fax. The PDF lacks built in form fields you can type in. The extra friction is probably a feature: https://assets.equifax.com/wfs/theworknumber/assets/twn_Empl... (the exif data on that PDF shows the name of the employee that created it and that they used Word 2010...) The Equifax CCPA reques…

>The extra friction is probably a feature: https://assets.equifax.com/wfs/theworknumber/assets/twn_Empl ... (the exif data on that PDF shows the name of the employee that created it and that they used Word 2010...) I don't get it. how is "PDF shows the name of the employee that created it and that they used Word 2010" relevant to the claim that "extra friction is probably a feature"?

Just speculating here, but I wonder if their point is that they went out of their way to create a PDF that is as unusable as possible, and that Word 2010 is somehow required to create such a PDF.

A few simpler explanations:

- Equifax IT hasn't rolled out modern O365 apps

- The form was created a long time ago, and has not been updated

Regardless of the exif data, I do believe that friction is absolutely a feature in this process, but I also think the Word 2010 angle is tenuous at best.

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