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Procrastinatory Doom Loops

brennancolberg.com

151–160 of 290 posts

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#151
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ADHD is not a motivation thing. Generally speaking. You might struggle with motivation and that's okay, but framing it as a ADHD trait might harm others. Be cautious about that. I was burned out and got into depression because I was going hard on myself for years. Blaming my motivation and asking myself if I even "genuinely want to do the task required to accomplish your[my] goals". Getting my diagnosis was a huge re…

I completely agree, I think that’s the point I’m making - motivation is separate from execution. No pill is going to make you want to do something or to accomplish some goal. You need to decide that for yourself, and only then can execution even make a difference in the first place. In fact I’d say the clearest indicator of ADHD is a surplus of motivation coupled with a dearth of execution. You know you want it, but…

I feel like you are being downvoted by people without ADHD who aren't getting what you are saying.

For anyone wanting to learn more - welcome to my world: https://romankogan.net/adhd/

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#152
post #90

This is an oldie so many may already know it. But always relevant reading for my fellow procrastinators. Part 1: https://waitbutwhy.com/2013/10/why-procrastinators-procrasti... Part 2: https://waitbutwhy.com/2013/11/how-to-beat-procrastination.h... Bonus: https://waitbutwhy.com/2015/03/procrastination-matrix.html Highly recommended! While I still procrastinate this understanding has helped me control my urge tememdou…

I've added these to my "read later" list.

I used to get yearly emails from Pocket when I used it saying I was in the top single-digit-n% of readers with a word count in the low six digits. That's maybe an hour of reading a day, which suggest the later never comes for most articles saved to Pocket.

These days I accept I don't care enough about most things to read articles on it until I get interested, and then it's hard to find good reading on it unless I've drilled my well. Now I save any interesting-looking article in Notion for when I get interested and go searching.

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#153
post #58

Usually, I solve this by making it the only thing on my list that day, and clearing as many hurdles as possible the day before. This can mean anything from preliminary googling to cleaning up my workspace and taking out the required tools. This means that on the fateful morning, it’s the first thing I do after making coffee. No checking emails, no small chores, just a shower, coffee and getting to work. I read somewh…

>I read somewhere that a lot of procrastination is fear of failure or fear of the unknown

The Brain Science podcast from Changelog has an episode about perfectionism and how it can lead to procrastination, by the fear of rejection or failure.

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I discovered this in my early 20s and it has been the key to my rarely if ever dealing with with issues with procrastination. When I think of something I don’t want to do immediately, one of the first things that pops into my head is both how quickly it will get done and how good it will feel to have it done, and so I do it right then and there. The satisfaction of knocking off something you didn’t want to do is the…

For that to work you need to be able to frame the problem as something that can be done immediately. If the problem has a blocking step, like "fill out this form, then in two weeks, check back to see if it worked," I find it much harder to see the joy in completing the task.

I normally approach that mentally as advancing the task towards completion, and as a matter of framing I try to remember that larger tasks feel better to complete than bite-sized ones. The regular practice of this approach gives one reinforcing feedback loop of ‘momentum’ and a mental image of oneself as a person who gets things done, which reduces the feeling of inertia that contributes to the sort of shame spirals we’re talking about.

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#155

>I do tasks on three timescales: they either get done immediately, after a shamefully massive delay, or not at all. There’s little in-between. To anyone relating: that's an ADHD symptom. It falls under the umbrella of Executive Dysfunction[1]. I have been beating myself up for it all my life, and turns out there are many things that work differently for people with ADHD - and many things that help (from medication[2]…

I wouldn't so quickly jump to "that's an ADHD symptom". I know many people inarguably not ADHD who exhibit similar task timescales.

I don't want to discount the fact that this can be a hallmark symptom of ADHD for those that truly have/are ADHD. However, some part of this reaction is over-pathologization.

It's increasingly accepted that ADHD is over-diagnosed [1] [2] [3], and I feel that this task timescale concept accounts for part of that.

[1] Overdiagnosis of Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder in Children and Adolescents; https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle...

[2] Overdiagnosis of mental disorders in children and adolescents (in developed countries); https://capmh.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13034-016-...

[3] Is Adult Attention-Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder Being Overdiagnosed?; https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC4500182/

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#156
post #148

>I do tasks on three timescales: they either get done immediately, after a shamefully massive delay, or not at all. There’s little in-between. To anyone relating: that's an ADHD symptom. It falls under the umbrella of Executive Dysfunction[1]. I have been beating myself up for it all my life, and turns out there are many things that work differently for people with ADHD - and many things that help (from medication[2]…

Good stuff. I have lived with ADHD as long as I remember. Going on and off prescriptions. Adult ADHD has mostly revolved around depression/mood swing cycles of hyper focus and motivation (new interesting project/work, new job) and procrastination, lack of focus, and depression caused by that feeling of know I should be doing X but not being able to bring myself to. I have some coping techniques and it isn't something…

There are supplements that eliminate almost all of the negative side-effects of stims.

- L-Tyrosine to keep your dopamine levels up.

- ALCAR + ALA to reduce neurotoxicity and tolerance formation

- Magnesium and Zinc for muscle tension, including jaw clenching if you're prone to that.

And for Aderall, you can take Vitamin C at any point to rapidly flush it out of your system.

These things are a game-changer for quality of life and sustainability of stimulant medication. For example, with the ALA+ALCAR stack, I don't get any withdrawals when I take breaks. No fatigue, malaise, nothing. I would have given up on adderall a long time ago without these things.

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pills help but motivation is not some emergent property of normality. You first need to care about, and genuinely want to do, the task required to accomplish your goals. I’m a fan of this quote from Steve Jobs – (paraphrasing) “every day you wake up and look in the mirror, do you like what you’re doing that day? If not, it’s time to do something else.” The other quote I like is Jeff Bezos and his “picturing mysel…

Why would I ever want to contribute to this roiling cesspit of a society? Why would I ever be happy working to increase the share value of some faceless company? What value does the human species have when life is mostly pain? Why would I care to try in a world full of selfish ignorant entitled morons? While I work to be an honest decent human being others around me lie and cheat and have so little self awareness tha…

I might be off in my comprehension, but I sense a tone of disappointment or cynicism.

In broad terms, taking humanity's current state as a starting point, what would the nearest (aesthetically? existentially?) acceptable point in the human-cultural phase space look like for you?

No intent to antagonize, but I am curious since I have passed through similar worldviews here and there.

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#158

This is an oldie so many may already know it. But always relevant reading for my fellow procrastinators. Part 1: https://waitbutwhy.com/2013/10/why-procrastinators-procrasti... Part 2: https://waitbutwhy.com/2013/11/how-to-beat-procrastination.h... Bonus: https://waitbutwhy.com/2015/03/procrastination-matrix.html Highly recommended! While I still procrastinate this understanding has helped me control my urge tememdou…

I found myself relating to these particular three articles a lot . Then, last year, I have learned about ADHD - and, to my surprise, realized I'm a textbook example. There are a lot of resources available for us, and ways to do things differently. If you relate to WaitButWhy, check this out: https://romankogan.net/adhd/ And if you find yourself scrolling and relating - there's a good change your life will drastically…

You don't need to reply to every comment with a link to your site.

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#159
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you me? :) One other thing that sometimes works is that I will tell myself: Ok, you should start this thing, but you only have to do ${trivial-amount} on it. Then you can do ${more-enticing-thing}. I don't know why this works since obviously I'm fully privy to the subterfuge... but if I can manage that first trivial amount (e.g. when I was writing tech books it would be one paragraph) I would often end up finishi…

Nothing is new and we aren't all that unique, haha. The more you described your issue and how you deal with it the more I thought the same "are you me?". Instead of tech writing I try to produce music (still learning, just 3 years in) and I ended up using the same subterfuge: when I avoid opening my DAW to make music I just tell to myself "open it, create a motif with a preset sound you like and save the project", so…

Oh, hilarious, I see we're also both naturalised Swedes :D

Good luck with the music (and anti-procrastination).

Re: Procrastinatory Doom Loops

#160

I spent about a third of 2021 more or less consumed by this phenomenon. In my case it was triggered by job searching: I quit my existing position, intending to do a leisurely search over a few months... and then avoided nearly everything related to the job search for over four months. (While still experiencing a ton of stress as a result of constant anxiety and guilt about it.) Once I actually started, I landed an am…

I've been dealing with overcoming some severe procrastination issues again. I was doing some "Spring" cleaning over the last few weeks and came across several books I had bought and read in the past. I picked up, The Now Habit[0], and opened it to page 103 (of my version/copy).

Below is a bit of a wall of text with I assume several typos. Please forgive me, I read the following excerpt out loud and used speech to text to get in here.

--Excerpt Begin--

Worrying can warn you of danger and evoke action to prepare for that danger. Respect your ability to worry as a means to alert you to potential danger. But the rapid flow of frightening thoughts characteristic of most counterproductive worrying simply creates more threats - you think, "it would be awful if that happened. I couldn't stand it. I have to do well or else." Stopping there, with simply the frightening aspect of worrying, is like screaming "Danger!" Without knowing what to do or where to run. In effect, your screen has caused a lot of disturbance in people but has not told them what they can do to escape the danger. By alerting yourself to a potential danger without establishing a plan for how you will cope, you have done only half of the job of worrying. You've left out the positive work of worrying - developing an action plan.

Once a threat is raised it must be dealt with to avoid worry and anxiety - that trap energy that can't be used productively now. Until you reach a solution or cancel the threat, worrying can operate like a recurrent nightmare that repeats a puzzle or problem. Plans, action, and solutions are required to direct the energy and complete the work of worrying.

Procrastination is an ineffective way to cope with worrying because it stalls action and simply piles up more worries. The worry that accompanies procrastination is usually learned very early in life. Parents, bosses, and teachers often use threats and images of disaster to motivate us to achieve goals they have chosen. This belief that vinegar can motivate better than honey is so prevalent among those in charge of our schools, factories, and offices that most of us suffer from some form of fear of failure and worry about being unacceptable because of our imperfection.

Familiar examples are the boss who stingly withholds compliments for the work completed while freely criticizing what is unfinished and imperfect, saying, "You'll have to do a lot better than this.. there's a lot more to do and I need this as soon as possible." Or the parent or teacher who tries to motivate by saying, "So what if you got three A's, why did you only get a B in math?"

This terrible training - that your work is never good enough - leads to the belief that you are never good enough to satisfy a parent or a boss. Feeling ineffectual regardless of how hard you try is very depressing and damaging to yourself work. Without an established sense of worth that bounces back from criticism in the face of normal mistakes, it is extremely difficult to step into the work arena, where some failures can be anticipated and where the longed-for praise for hard work and progress is seldom forthcoming. Eventually the risks seem too great to take and the threats lose their ability to motivate you.

This syndrome is particularly sad when people with talent will not risk trying for fear of being less than number one. At its worst, their perfectionism and fear of failure ( failure being defined as being less than perfect ( cause them to let their own talents atrophy rather than complete a task and risk being found second best. The more common solution for individuals raised on threats is to use their own threatening self-talk in an effort to win approval by mimicking their critical mentors. Rather than helping them to face their fears, such threats will only contribute to the procrastination cycle: threatening self-talk leads to anxiety, then to resistance, resulting in procrastination. Procrastination May temporarily lessen the tension of facing a challenging project and the risk of failing, but it cannot help you escape worry.

. . .

For 10 years Judith, a bright young accountant, suffered from worries about losing her job because of her continual procrastination. Judith continued to push herself to work in an insurance firm that others had left years before because of the cold and pressured atmosphere. After all, she had learned at an early age that she was lazy and inadequate, that there was always more that could be done, and that she needed constant reminding and pressure from those who said they cared about her.

In Judith's family individual progress was seldom acknowledge unless it was compared well with what others were doing. This pressure to do the best was constant whether the arena was school, sports, or musical talent. So it it did not surprise Judith when her boss turned out to be someone who provided a similar scarcity of praise and in abundance of pressure. From the boss's point of view, Judas motivation was supposed to come from her salary and the pressure and threats he used so frequently.

But for Judith, her working conditions only verified insecurities learned much earlier. She felt that she didn't deserve much, and fear both failure and success. She said: "I might do something wrong, and they'll think I'm dumb. I feel that people are constantly judging me and that I keep coming up short. But I know, if they were to say I'm smart or talented, I'd still feel anxious because then I'd have to be that way all the time."

The constant fear of being criticized or fired kept Judith in stress and poor health most of the time. But it was her procrastination and her fear of doing increasingly poor work that motivated her to seek help. Like most procrastinators, Judith was a good worker. She wasn't lazy. It was the pressure and the fear of failure that began to block her ability to work. As the stress of anticipated criticism for inadequate work increased and the praised dwindled, Judith's motivation and self-confidence began to dry up. More and more she relied on procrastination as a way to escape and to express her resentment.

It didn't take much for Judith to see that her boss's threats and withholding of praise recreated her family environment. And when Judith recognized that her family environment had taught her low self-esteem, victimhood, resistance and then destructive coping strategies such as procrastination, she was eager to change her current environment.

Even before I discussed the work of worrying as a way to reduce her stress, Judith on her own had begun to consider "what is the worst happened." She realized that though it would be extremely embarrassing and difficult for her, she could face being fired and that, in some ways it would be a welcome relief. In fact, given her timidity and low self-esteem, it was hard to imagine how she would ever be motivated to look for a better job unless she was fired.

But Judas had decided she wanted more. She wanted to be freely acknowledged for her work and her talents. Judith was determined to find people who could appreciate her for who she was and what she could do, rather than seeking out those who always demanded that she be something different. She no longer wanted to work under conditions that lowered her self-esteem. Having face the worst that could happen - being fired - Judas has prepared herself with safety nets of compassionate self-talk and concrete alternatives that would help her cope while looking for a new job.

Judith had started the first step of a six-step process for facing fears and creating safety. These steps take you beyond "what if" and direct the block energy of anxiety towards constructive preparation for potential danger. When you are continually worried about failing on a project or losing a job, ask yourself these six questions as part of your work of worrying:

One. What is the worst that could happen? Too. What would I do if the worst really happened? Three. How would I lessen the pain and get on with as much happiness as possible if the worst did occur? Four. What alternatives would I have? Five. What can I do now to lessen the probability of this dreaded event occurring? Six. Is there anything I can do now to increase my chances of achieving my goal?

By using the work of worrying, creating safety, and using the language of the producer, you are establishing skills for maintaining genuine self-confidence. Most people wish for an illusory confidence that says, "I must know that I will win; I should have a guarantee that nothing will go wrong." This leaves you at a severe disadvantage because you haven't considered "what will I do if something does go wrong?" Trying to control things so they go just as you imagine them takes enormous energy, keeps you blind to what could go wrong, keeps you from planning for a strategic retreat, and drains you the energy necessary for bouncing back.

True confidence is knowing that whether you're calm or anxious, whether you succeed or fail, you'll do your best and, if necessary, be ready to pick yourself up to carry on and try again. True confidence is the ability to say, "I am prepared for the worst, now I can focus on the work that will lead to the best."

-- Excerpt End--

[0] (affiliate/commission link: https://amzn.to/3HKf3as ), (non-affiliate/non-commission link: https://www.amazon.com/Now-Habit-Overcoming-Procrastination-... )

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