Live data from Hacker News

Computers as I used to love them

tonsky.me

61–70 of 265 posts

Re: Computers as I used to love them

#61
Dropbox target a much larger and less technical audience than Syncthing does, hence why Dropbox has UI/workflows that some technical users abhor.

I've lost patience with such products, and instead I tradeoff fewer features for more control. This applies to hardware too.

Re: Computers as I used to love them

#62
post #24

I suppose I’ve just become used to saying no to a bunch of things when installing Dropbox, but once that’s done I have no interactions with it at all. I don’t remember being pestered at any point recently and I’ve got it on three devices. I keep waiting for it to annoy me in some way that causes me to find another solution but it’s yet to happen. I migrated several G Suite accounts to Fastmail recently so I suspect i…

Personally I've noticed how dropbox has gone from being a tool that fits well into a larger context, to instead trying to encompass the entire experience of touching synced files. For example, the number of clicks (and the precision of those clicks and the distractions around them) to open the dropbox folder in your OS's file explorer has gradually increased. And the amount of attention dropbox asks for, things like…

It’s one click to get to your Dropbox folder though, what’s changed there? Besides I just have some symlinks to point at it and I never think about manually going there again. I dunno if I’m just already on the top tier of subscriptions but I get zero upsell or notifications after it’s installed and configured. I’d certainly love it if everything was off by default but it’s not really any hardship to go through the preferences.

Obviously the moment it stops just sitting there backing up my files and keeping them in sync across my devices I’d be bothered, but whatever they’re trying to force on people hasn’t really registered with me in a decade of use.

Re: Computers as I used to love them

#63
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same could happen with Dropbox/icloud, or even if you just ran two Minecraft instances with the same copy of the world on one machine - Minecraft worlds are not designed for concurrent modification by multiple processes

The same can't happen with Dropbox, because minecraft worlds are NOT stored in ~/Dropbox/ folder. That actually reinforces my point about a separate synced folder being a plus for most users, not a minus.

Third party launchers commonly used for modpacks, the first party dedicated server, changing the settings on the first party launcher are all ways you can put your saves in the Dropbox folder

Re: Computers as I used to love them

#64
post #51

I tried many sync solutions (Syncthing, SparkleShare, Resilio, Mega, Seafile, NextCloud) and I almost always experienced some kind of data corruption. Syncthing was no exception. I could not reproduce the problem, so I never made a bug report. The corruption was something like this: - I recursively renamed all files from a folder from uppercase to lower case. Suddenly I duplicated files, uppercase and lower case. - I…

I really wanted to love syncthing a lot, I loved the idea, the interface, everything. But I would always get a number of errors on some files for whatever reason that I would have to then manually fix and sometimes I couldn't even do that. But it has been a few years, so maybe it's time to try again...

Re: Computers as I used to love them

#66
The best thing about Syncthing is that it does not require accounts!

With iCloud and Dropbox (and SaaS in general), everything is linked to your user account. They assume that each computer is used by exactly one user.

But that just doesn't match my reality! At home we have a shared computer in the living room, and at work we have build servers shared by multiple people.

I really don't want to sign in with my personal Apple ID or Dropbox account on a shared computer.

With Syncthing that doesn't matter. I can just sync a single folder, and syncthing doesn't care who that folder belongs to and doesn't require granting access to unrelated folders that happen to belong to the same user.

Re: Computers as I used to love them

#67
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same could happen with Dropbox/icloud, or even if you just ran two Minecraft instances with the same copy of the world on one machine - Minecraft worlds are not designed for concurrent modification by multiple processes

The same can't happen with Dropbox, because minecraft worlds are NOT stored in ~/Dropbox/ folder. That actually reinforces my point about a separate synced folder being a plus for most users, not a minus.

> minecraft worlds are NOT stored in ~/Dropbox/ folder.

They certainly can be. They can be stored wherever you like, either if you are using a modding/hacking launcher (both are very popular for non-technical players, e.g. kids who aren't programmers) or if you are running a minecraft server (the vanilla server jar runs wherever you decide to put it, and doing this is not exactly an esoteric feat; again, nontechnical kids do it.)

Re: Computers as I used to love them

#68
Bi-directional sync is notoriously difficult to get right. See for example the paper "Mysteries of Dropbox" or the contents of any iCloud users address book. I use Unison which I trust (based on their peer-reviewed publications) and has a good UI to resolve conflicts. It isn't clear to me how Syncthing deals with conflicts or problems.

Re: Computers as I used to love them

#69
post #33

All good and well, but isn't comparing Syncthing and Dropbox kind of apples to oranges? Dropbox has a completely different scope that goes beyond what Syncthing is offering. If you don't require the features Dropbox offers, it's the wrong tool in the first place.

Both are solutions to sync a folder across multiple devices. The fact that dropbox added a bunch of extra features over the years is irrelevant to most users.

That's like arguing Photoshop is too complicated compared to MS Paint, because both can resize and crop images.

If all you want to do is syncing folders across devices, use a tool that does just that. Just to emphasize how this is relevant, here's what Dropbox says about what it is [0].

> What is Dropbox?

> Dropbox is a place where all your team’s content comes together.

There's nothing in that very first sentence of their own description of the product that suggests syncing folders across devices as a use case.

Just because you can do that, too, doesn't mean it's the primary use case. Dropbox sees their product as a solution for collaborating across teams.

But that's only one side, so let's look at the "Personal Use"-section [1]:

> Back up your big ideas, your best memories and your family traditions.

And again, syncing folders across devices isn't mentioned - they see Dropbox as a centralised backup solution.

> Centralise your storage, declutter your life

So they tell the user exactly how they see their product and the laborious installation process is a consequence of that.

So while you see a product for syncing across devices, the product is advertised as a collaboration solution or a centralised storage for backup and device-independent global access.

That's not me claiming this either, this is straight from the horse's mouth and what users are told.

[0] https://www.dropbox.com/features

[1] https://www.dropbox.com/plus

Re: Computers as I used to love them

#70
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn’t that happen with Dropbox too? Maybe the race condition just happens less often because it syncs slower?

No, because you'll have to do quite a few steps to put an actively used minecraft world in a ~/Dropbox/ folder.

That doesn't argue that Dropbox won't also ruin actively updated folders. You're now talking about Minecraft configuration which is orthogonal to your original point.
Post reply on HN