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Keyboard lets people type so fast it’s banned from typing competitions

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Re: Keyboard lets people type so fast it’s banned from typing competitions

#421

Post by foxfluff »

elihu wrote: post #341
jejones3141 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why I got a Dvorak skin for my TypeMatrix keyboard. I know QWERTY well enough I don't have to look for it, and I can switch to Dvorak and be able to peek if need be.

I've been using dvorak for a long time. I kind of wonder if not having a keyboard with the correct dvorak keycaps actually helps learn it faster than it would if you had the correct keycaps? If you can't look at the keys to know what they are, then it encourages touch typing. Still, I can see where it'd be nice to be able to fall back on looking at the keys.

Yes, I think not having keycaps helps enormously. Force you to memorize the layout and you can't get lazy about it. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29837101

Re: Keyboard lets people type so fast it’s banned from typing competitions

#422

Post by foxfluff »

mynameisash wrote: post #120
nthdeui wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I learnt to touch type I switched to Dvorak at the same time. I liked the idea of improved efficiency but whenever I had to use someone else's computer or they needed to use mine it was too much hassle. Once I'd relearned to touch type with Qwerty life was so much easier. Also hjkl with Vim using Dvorak was just too hard to get my brain around

J and K are adjacent in Dvorak, and they're down and up, respectively, which makes vertical scrolling just as easy, IMO. I never really used H and L but instead rely on mostly W and B (which aren't adjacent but are close enough). So by happy coincidence, navigating in vim works just fine, I think.

Yep. I use vim & evil regularly with dvorak. J and K as well as H and L are just fine. H and L are placed very similarly to where they are on qwerty; H is just shifted one position to the right, and L is one position to the right and up. So they still have the "left-right" feel, and I like that H is under the index finger.

Re: Keyboard lets people type so fast it’s banned from typing competitions

#423

Post by kstenerud »

0kl wrote: post #211
usrbinbash wrote: post #89

>You may soon see that coworker with the weird monolith style trackball mouse rocking this strange peripheral and claiming he’s upped his efficiency in ways you can’t possibly imagine. Since coding is 20% sitting in meetings, 50% reading code, 10% drawing on whiteboards or sticky notes, 15% drinking coffee, 4.5% fighting impostor syndrome and 0.5% actual typing, I think I am quite safe with my good 'ol QWERTY.

I think things like this are not “everyone must use this new better way of typing,” but more “hey there may be a better way of doing this task.” I am always surprised, though at this point I shouldn’t be, that there is always pushback against any attempts at improving the status quo when it comes to typing speeds on HN - as though the creator is attacking all of us with lower typing speeds personally… From another pe…

The pushback is not against the improvements themselves, but rather at the claims of what the improvements solve, and the criticisms of people who fall below some threshold at some specific task, with dubious claims about the effect on their overall performance (without actually measuring the overall performance).

It seems to be a common theme among tech people to unfairly extrapolate small, vaguely related things to judge big things, even to the point of rejecting job candidates or firing employees over one of them and then crowing about it on social media (for example the "don't hire losers" post a few days ago).

If someone doesn't like how I work, then don't watch me work. I get paid for the fruits of my work, not how I get there.

Re: Keyboard lets people type so fast it’s banned from typing competitions

#424

Post by rightbyte »

ryukafalz wrote: post #265
rightbyte wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ye since private computer chatting essentially died out I see no use for fast typing anymore. When I and all my friends communicated via computer text typing fast would have been really convenient. Ergonomic typing however, I guess is important. And I am bad at that. Looking down to find the keys might be a bad habit? I have almost trained that away.

>since private computer chatting essentially died out News to me

Might depend on friends. I meant at a computer with keyboard, not on a phone.

Re: Keyboard lets people type so fast it’s banned from typing competitions

#425

Post by BlueTemplar »

Izkata wrote: post #311
kelseyfrog wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It allows for minimal disruption to thinking process Willing to dive into this a bit more? My personal experience is different so I figure this is a chance to learn something new. The subjective character of typing experience for me is like riding a bike, driving a car, walking, or speaking. That is to say that unless I'm mountain biking, off-roading, on a balance beam, or trying to say a tongue twister, for the mo…

> My paltry 50-60wpm doesn't feel like an impediment to putting thoughts into text, but maybe others feel differently. That may be high enough that you don't have the impediment, but when you work with someone who types down around 10-15 WPM... You can definitely tell they're spending a lot of brainpower on hunt-and-peck instead of the problem they're actually trying to solve. Basically there's diminishing returns on…

That's due to unfamiliarity with the input device. And if they end up having to use it several hours per day, this slowness will go away in a few weeks.

Re: Keyboard lets people type so fast it’s banned from typing competitions

#426

Post by usrbinbash »

0kl wrote: post #378
yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am always surprised, though at this point I shouldn’t be, that there is always pushback against any attempts at improving the status quo when it comes to typing speeds on HN - as though the creator is attacking all of us with lower typing speeds personally… I don't think it's a general attack because people are personally offended; most of the criticism right now seems to be that the headline claim is materially…

I agree with you here entirely. I don’t really see how this is transformative compared to any chorded typing system. The specific op I was replying to was saying > …and 0.5% actual typing, I think I am quite safe with my good 'ol QWERTY. And there were a host of similar comments initially. 100% on fighting snake oil. 0% on pushing back against people trying new things that might improve the status quo

Hi, "specific op" here. I'd be interesting in knowing how what I wrote above is a "pushback against any attempts at improving the status quo".

I said I spend not a lot of time typing. Therefore, a device that is aimed at improving typing speed, has a low impact on my productivity.

Re: Keyboard lets people type so fast it’s banned from typing competitions

#427

Post by Cthulhu_ »

tjoff wrote: post #407
minusSeven wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Outlook, word and I think even google keyboard does the same thing. You have to basically type it again in them and they take it to mean you don't want it autocorrected.

It is the first thing you disable though.

Exactly, I disabled autocorrect early on and never looked back. For convenience I MAY sometimes use the suggested words.

But I prefer a regular keyboard. This doesn't make me a luddite or anything, mobile keyboards are objectively bad compared to regular keyboards.

Re: Keyboard lets people type so fast it’s banned from typing competitions

#428

Post by Cthulhu_ »

grogenaut wrote: post #340
thanhhaimai wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Monkeytpe won’t let Keen run up the leaderboard, but he did win another typing competition using the CharaChorder to hit 267 WPM with 76% accuracy. IMHO, 76% accuracy is honestly low. If the person has to sacrifice so much accuracy to hit 267 I'm not sure it's worth it. For most typing, making a mistake actually interrupts your thought process. This speed is only achievable/useful when there are text on the screen…

I actively worked to remove my oh I typed that wrong reflex. Because I need to ready anything important again and I'll click the squiggles. Everything else dosent mattr enughf for me to kare. Or I use with Google voice dictation and just deal with the craziness. Dictated not red

I know someone who makes tons of typos in their regular text, they don't seem to use autocorrect, and it's fucking annoying to try and read what they post. It's common typos like jsut instead of just. They just seem too lazy or indifferent to fix their shit.

Re: Keyboard lets people type so fast it’s banned from typing competitions

#429

Post by foxfluff »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #260
Aperocky wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

playing the devil's advocate, typing speed is important for these reasons: 1. It allows for minimal disruption to thinking process, close to 90% of the time even when coding is not actively typing, but when typing is subconscious and fast it removes the potential of where it interrupts the thinking process. 2. While this has no bearing on individual case (It would be Bayesian, some people consider that to be heretic)…

> It allows for minimal disruption to thinking process Willing to dive into this a bit more? My personal experience is different so I figure this is a chance to learn something new. The subjective character of typing experience for me is like riding a bike, driving a car, walking, or speaking. That is to say that unless I'm mountain biking, off-roading, on a balance beam, or trying to say a tongue twister, for the mo…

For me typing is the frustrating part, because when I know what I want the code to look like, having to type it in is just an annoying obstacle I have to go through before I can move on to the next thing, whether that's testing or thinking about the next bit of code or whatever. So yes, I do find it to be a distraction and frustration. Kinda like having to type a long random password and then dig out your phone and enter a 2FA code and then navigate a hierarchy of whatever before you can get to do the thing you're really after.

I always wish I could type faster and with less effort, or -- better yet -- just wish the code into the shape I want. ~100wpm touchtypist here.

Re: Keyboard lets people type so fast it’s banned from typing competitions

#430

Post by foxfluff »

usrbinbash wrote: post #414
Izkata wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My paltry 50-60wpm doesn't feel like an impediment to putting thoughts into text, but maybe others feel differently. That may be high enough that you don't have the impediment, but when you work with someone who types down around 10-15 WPM... You can definitely tell they're spending a lot of brainpower on hunt-and-peck instead of the problem they're actually trying to solve. Basically there's diminishing returns on…

The thing is, when a programmers starts to generate input, the problem is already solved, he is merely putting the solution into whatever representation the tools demand. I am not defending 10-15 WPM here ofc. just statingt that the majority of work happens before we start typing in code, and after we typed it.

It's a type-think-type-think cycle (or type-test-think-type-...) and the more time and effort you spend on the typing part, the more it distracts you from the rest. Typing for a few minutes isn't any better than compiling for a few minutes before you can test. It just interrupts the more interesting work.
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