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Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

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Re: Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

#151

Post by heavyset_go »

snambi wrote: post #127
jf wrote: post #30

Learning that this website exists, and then finding detailed and accurate information in my record is what convinced me to start sharing my salary data with my peers. As I see it, this database is a breach of an implicit social contract between me and the companies that I work for. Since my employers apparently have no issues sharing my salary with their peers, I see no reason not to do the same with my peers.

If all employees share their salary information with each other, it becomes a headache for the employer. Each employee may quote the other person's salary demanding a raise. This is the reason behind the "keep your data confidential" idea.

> This is the reason behind the "keep your data confidential" idea.

It's also illegal under the NLRA of 1935. Employees talking about working conditions, like compensation, is a legally protected act whether it's on employer time or not.

Re: Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

#152

Post by ChuckMcM »

snambi wrote: post #127
jf wrote: post #30

Learning that this website exists, and then finding detailed and accurate information in my record is what convinced me to start sharing my salary data with my peers. As I see it, this database is a breach of an implicit social contract between me and the companies that I work for. Since my employers apparently have no issues sharing my salary with their peers, I see no reason not to do the same with my peers.

If all employees share their salary information with each other, it becomes a headache for the employer. Each employee may quote the other person's salary demanding a raise. This is the reason behind the "keep your data confidential" idea.

I don't disagree with this. My experience though is that a more common reason it is a headache for some managers if their reports are sharing salary information is that they don't know how to have a conversation with someone about their performance. In particular their less than great performance.

So employee B comes in and says, "Hey employee A makes 15% more than I do and we have the same job! I even have more experience!" And the manager rates employee A's performance above employee B's so the salary is "appropriate" considering their relative productivity.

The problem comes in when the manager can't have an honest conversation with B to tell them this, and instead in their review gives them lots of happy talk and makes some sorry excuse for the small raise (or no raise!) saying something like "It has been a tough year and even I didn't get the raise I had hoped for! I really went to bat for you but nothing I could do could move them on available compensation." When, in fact, that is a lie and the employee is just being gaslighted because the employee would be mad and upset if they told them the "truth."

A good manager tells their reports what is expected of them and how it is measured so that when review time comes they are both on the same page when it comes to their pay. It also helps with making actionable plans to improve.

Sadly, there are a LOT of crappy managers out there.

Re: Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

#153

Post by neltnerb »

jiveturkey wrote: post #99
jf wrote: post #30

Learning that this website exists, and then finding detailed and accurate information in my record is what convinced me to start sharing my salary data with my peers. As I see it, this database is a breach of an implicit social contract between me and the companies that I work for. Since my employers apparently have no issues sharing my salary with their peers, I see no reason not to do the same with my peers.

I'm not sure how these go together. No problem sharing to your peers regardless of what your employer shares.

Many people have an ethical sense that if something is understood to not be done to them they will not do it to others.

It takes a while for people to learn that, with exceptions, companies have never heard of this rule. But it's understandable that people would still feel bad about doing stuff we've been taught all our lives isn't really a good way to be.

Sure, a company isn't your friend, but that doesn't make "betraying trust" in response a nice feeling.

Re: Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

#154

Post by myself248 »

teraflop wrote: post #140
pianoben wrote: post #9

"To log in, enter your SSN, date of birth, home address, and" No way, no how.

I dutifully entered everything they asked for, because, you know, they're Equifax and they undoubtedly have it already. Then they said I needed a "verification code" and gave me the option of half a dozen phone numbers and email addresses to choose from... none of which remotely resembled anything I've ever had (the email addresses all contained my surname and appeared to be randomly generated). When I clicked the "n…

Same here. Great. I wonder what other lies they believe about me.

On the one hand, I'm probably glad the data is shit? But on the other hand, folks consuming the data might not understand that.

Re: Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

#155

Post by dhosek »

cmeacham98 wrote: post #125
BeefySwain wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hijacking here to say, literally all you need to get access to someones employment + salary history is their SSN and birthdate. edit: and a past employer that used this system Birthdays are extremely easy to get (public record), and I seem to recall a specific large organization leaking a bunch of SSN's not too long ago.......

Unless you are very young (read: born after 2011) your SSN can be trivially brute forced if an attacker knows where and when you were born, because those details were (before 2011) mapped onto 5 of the 9 digits in an SSN.

More accurately where you were born and when your SSN was issued (my brothers who are four years older than me got their SSNs at the same time I did). Some of us older folks were born in an era in which you didn't automatically get an SSN along with the birth certificate. And then there are people who weren't born in the US so will have had their SSN not matching birth year.

I also think it's less than 5 of the 9 digits that are reflected in this manner. That would not leave room for a lot of distinction in SSNs.

Re: Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

#157

Post by Proven »

jf wrote: post #30

Learning that this website exists, and then finding detailed and accurate information in my record is what convinced me to start sharing my salary data with my peers. As I see it, this database is a breach of an implicit social contract between me and the companies that I work for. Since my employers apparently have no issues sharing my salary with their peers, I see no reason not to do the same with my peers.

[dead]

Re: Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

#158

Post by throwawaygh »

detaro wrote: post #147
throwawaygh wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then I'm not sure what the point of your post was. Software security is a mess in large part because of the phenomenon you describe.

> Then I'm not sure what the point of your post was. That "but she has a music degree!" is the least relevant part of evaluating if someone is qualified for such a CISO role or not. Someone with the "wrong" degree but talent and relevant experience would easily beat someone with a fancy "Masters of Information Security" degree that then muddled around in less relevant areas. Focusing on people's degrees is almost alw…

> Someone with the "wrong" degree but talent and relevant experience would easily beat someone with a fancy "Masters of Information Security" degree that then muddled around in less relevant areas.

Sure, totally agreed.

> Focusing on people's degrees is almost always the wrong measure in IT.

Maybe 20 years ago. (I was there.)

Today, asking for exceptional technical depth and a proven track-record of leadership is not a big ask.

Re: Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

#160

Post by throwoutway »

dboreham wrote: post #60
tomrod wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked in a two person company last year where I ran payroll with ADP. It's there for me too, and I don't recall opt in permission on this.

Three-person company here. We do our own payroll, using Quickbooks (not their payroll processing service, just Quickbooks the desktop application). We have employees in two states.

But is your salary data on this equifax site?
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