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The ITC declares Google infringed on audio tech patents held by Sonos [pdf]

usitc.gov

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Re: The ITC declares Google infringed on audio tech patents held by Sonos [pdf]

#31

Post by yccs27 »

Closi wrote: post #8
suddenexample wrote: post #2

As far as I can tell, these are the patents mentioned in the document: Method and apparatus for adjusting volume levels in a multi-zone system - https://patents.google.com/patent/US8588949B2/en System and method for synchronizing operations among a plurality of independently clocked digital data processing devices - https://patents.google.com/patent/US9195258B2/en Multi-channel pairing in a media system - https://pat…

> System and method for synchronizing operations among a plurality of independently clocked digital data processing devices - https://patents.google.com/patent/US9195258B2/en This one in particular seems way too broad. So... they have a patent on the concept of deducting latency from a message to synchronize clocks? (and then sending data with a timestamp for when it will play?)

Interesingly, none of the specific claims referenced in the decision have to do with clock synchronization, they all focus on the act of grouping speakers in some way and controlling them together.

Re: The ITC declares Google infringed on audio tech patents held by Sonos [pdf]

#32

Post by akersten »

ra-mos wrote: post #30
akersten wrote: post #22

Patents are horrible. Can you really look me in the face and tell me that controlling the volume of speakers independently of each other is some kind of special idea - not even a concrete product, but so innovative that the very concept deserves an exclusive license and millions in damages from those that dare implement a common-sense UX control? If you can, let me know where I can sign up for free Sonos products for…

Yes, because at one point in time that was an innovation. You said it yourself.

Where did I say that was an innovation?

And if it was an innovation at some point in time, I insist it was the year stereo was invented and the concept was just as invalid as a patent as it is today. Of course you expect the volume of your Left and Right channel to be controlled by the same volume knob.

This patent is like a car manufacturer patenting the idea of controlling all your direction with a single steering wheel, and all the other manufacturers are forced to implement individual steering wheels for each tire. It's just absurd.

Re: The ITC declares Google infringed on audio tech patents held by Sonos [pdf]

#33

Post by DangitBobby »

yccs27 wrote: post #28
akersten wrote: post #22

Patents are horrible. Can you really look me in the face and tell me that controlling the volume of speakers independently of each other is some kind of special idea - not even a concrete product, but so innovative that the very concept deserves an exclusive license and millions in damages from those that dare implement a common-sense UX control? If you can, let me know where I can sign up for free Sonos products for…

Ignoring the HN-pleasing "Patents are horrible" (to which I agree btw), the patents are very specifically about the opposite of independent volume control: They are about setting up groups of speakers which can be controlled together.

How could such a simple and obvious concept be patented?

Re: The ITC declares Google infringed on audio tech patents held by Sonos [pdf]

#34

Post by mdoms »

ethernet_cable wrote: post #27

This is the reason the physical volume buttons on Android 12 on Pixel phones no longer adjust Chromecasted music volume, unless you are in the music app in question. Adjusting Spotify cast on the Google Home used to be so easy... https://www.androidpolice.com/google-had-to-remove-cast-volu...

> This is the reason the physical volume buttons on Android 12 on Pixel phones no longer adjust Chromecasted music volume, unless you are in the music app in question.

Are you f'ing kidding me? This has been driving me nuts, I assumed it was just another stupid Android bug that would eventually be silently patched. It's so annoying how functionality like this can be removed without a peep, at least inform me if you're going to do this.

(It's not just Pixel phones, same problem with my Samsung A51 and I just got a brand new Motorola phone with the same problem).

Re: The ITC declares Google infringed on audio tech patents held by Sonos [pdf]

#35

Post by yccs27 »

suddenexample wrote: post #2

As far as I can tell, these are the patents mentioned in the document: Method and apparatus for adjusting volume levels in a multi-zone system - https://patents.google.com/patent/US8588949B2/en System and method for synchronizing operations among a plurality of independently clocked digital data processing devices - https://patents.google.com/patent/US9195258B2/en Multi-channel pairing in a media system - https://pat…

The "novelty" (idk how novel it is really, but they present it as such) is not in speakers playing the same audio or L/R at the same time, but individual autonomous playback devices being grouped and ungrouped, so that they can be controlled as a unit when grouped.

Re: The ITC declares Google infringed on audio tech patents held by Sonos [pdf]

#36

Post by rektide »

It's so hard to imagine the entire industry being held hostage like this.

My second thought is that this radically enhances the need for good IoT standards. Right now many devices are built to grant Google & Google alone the capability to control & orchestrate. Our devices are all vulnerable to legal attach because Google is the sole arbiter of control over our systems, and no one else has much of a say in how these devices run or operate; their capabilities are not up for general use.

By making devices which are more API centric, by having them expose what capabilities they have, in a networked fashion, not solely controlled by Google, there would be the possibility for other folks to step in & try to navigate & make offerings here. The risk to product owners would be diffused, there would be more resilience in what would be possible with devices, rather than this being such a 1 vs 1 battle. Things like group volume control seem like ideal candidates for tech that even a bone-headed laymen could implement in a couple lines of code, if specifications like the upcoming Matter IoT specifications were available & in use.

Some of the capabilities covered by these patents may need to be baked somewhat closer to the firmware. But for many of them, it feels like the rigid, fixed, top-down control system we've relied on is an epic legal vulnerability, one Sonos is driving a mac truck through. Letting our devices be scriptable and controllable would be safer, healthier, & help shirk off such flamboyant legal assaults. Devices should be general purpose, scriptable, because anything else is unsafe & unfit for users.

Re: The ITC declares Google infringed on audio tech patents held by Sonos [pdf]

#37

Post by vmception »

DiabloD3 wrote: post #23

I'm not a patent lawyer, but can anyone explain to me how this wasn't already covered by either part of multi-zone systems in the 80s/90s, or part of literally every single room correction tech since the late 90s? Sonos didn't exist when this technology was invented. Edit: Surprised I'm getting downvoted for this. All the patents listed are things multi-zone and room correcting systems already do. Look at technology…

The ITC cant invalidate patents so it was never part of the question

ITC can only look at imports and damages - aka lack of profit split - where they were due

And they found they were due, given the existence of the patent valid during the time in question

Feel free to correct me I’m wrong about the ITC

Re: The ITC declares Google infringed on audio tech patents held by Sonos [pdf]

#38

Post by mdoms »

Google have just (in the last hour) announced changes to the behaviour of speaker groups "due to a legal ruling".

https://www.googlenestcommunity.com/t5/Blog/Upcoming-Speaker...

It sounds like an absolute nightmare for users, and if I was affected I would be demanding a refund for every affected device, as they clearly are no longer functioning as expected at the time of purchase.

Re: The ITC declares Google infringed on audio tech patents held by Sonos [pdf]

#39

Post by nmstoker »

mdoms wrote: post #34
ethernet_cable wrote: post #27

This is the reason the physical volume buttons on Android 12 on Pixel phones no longer adjust Chromecasted music volume, unless you are in the music app in question. Adjusting Spotify cast on the Google Home used to be so easy... https://www.androidpolice.com/google-had-to-remove-cast-volu...

> This is the reason the physical volume buttons on Android 12 on Pixel phones no longer adjust Chromecasted music volume, unless you are in the music app in question. Are you f'ing kidding me? This has been driving me nuts, I assumed it was just another stupid Android bug that would eventually be silently patched. It's so annoying how functionality like this can be removed without a peep, at least inform me if you'r…

Yes, this drove me nuts. And was even more annoying because Google Support were totally unaware and acted like morons - it was about 30 minutes before I realised they had no clue what they were investigating and were just blindly plodding along, at which point I told them I'd give up. Weirdly they spammed me a few more times to try to get me to come back to resolve it (without giving any indication they knew any more).
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