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Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

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Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#231
1. Communicate continuously with your manager/other stakeholders any time there is a setback. It’s possible your boss’ boss got pissed that they found out about a delay in your project very late.

2. Big difference in working a job and doing schoolwork is that it’s a lot harder to finish “assignments”. Don’t procrastinate right up until the deadline because you WILL miss the deadline. While missing deadlines is no big deal generally, it looks a lot better if you were working continuously on the project and communicated issues/the need to revise estimates as early as possible.

2.5 Don’t do pseudo-productive stuff like fucking with vim macros or playing with a new rust package unless you actually need to do it for your job. Obviously doing this a bit is OK, but time box it, don’t spend weeks on it. I only bring this up because you mention having fun working with new stuff at work.

3 Don’t tolerate assholes. But also be honest with yourself. Nobody here has all the details to know if your managers are being reasonable or not.

4. Don’t over engineer. Do the bare minimum to get what you need to get done (so long as it’s reliable and maintainable). Use libraries. This is a big learning curve for new engineers, since writing professional software is more about getting some functionality to work than your academic assignments which were about teaching you new stuff. This is what your feedback is getting at: see how other people did something and copy it.

Another thing is that I notice you got your project done within 2 weeks of getting this negative feedback. What was the total timeline of the project? I ask because it kind of sounds like your manager “cracked the whip” / “lit a fire under your ass” and you got the project done pretty quickly after that, since two weeks is almost nothing in the software world (as I know it). In this case your manager may have done the right thing in getting you to focus on landing the project (at the expense of your happiness) assuming you weren’t working way overtime to get it done.

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#233

Time to start looking for the next gig. That boss is unsuitable for management. Lacking emotional intelligence, willingness to mentor, and so forth. I've never successfully managed upwards, never have been able to turn situations like yours around. I've had jobs that I really liked, so tried really hard to make things work. It was never worthwhile. I always regretted the effort. The good bosses I've had made all the…

"Managing up" exists for people who want to remain in a company long term and typically found in large organizations with bad managers. When the job market is bad, it is worth the effort. In this job market? I'd be gone in a heartbeat.

Yeah you can do it but it’s high effort and low reward. Good in a government or union job where you outlive your boss most of time.

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#234
"Code monkey think maybe manager wanna write Goddamn login page himself..."

You are right to feel bummed out. However much you may like your manager's boss, I don't feel he addressed his concerns in a constructive manner. Not only was berating you about your past mistakes a tone that is not conducive to future progress, but he failed to take your youth and relative inexperience into account. If there's a way of working he wants you to do and you're not doing it without prompting... that's understandable because you are fresh out of college. When you get to be my age, it's a whole lot less understandable.

Maybe you should talk with your manager about it. Sit down and say, look. I like working here, and I want to do better, and I think there are ways we can improve the quality of feedback we're getting. And just, hash it out, maybe put together a list, and then go to your boss with it.

I dunno, maybe it's not that kind of place, though. Read the room.

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#235
I think this is a pretty normal experience for a new dev. I had a similar thing happen to me after one of my first projects, a guy who I didn’t even realize was my technically my boss pulled into a meeting room and asked me why I took so long. It bummed me out a lot because I thought I had done a good job and in a reasonable time. I got over it though, and apparently they did too; I ended up working there for another 2.5 years before changing jobs because I wanted to move back to my home city.

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#236
It's impossible to tell from a write up like this.

You could have taken a little project and turned it into something big, not leveraging knowledge and resources, and maybe misinterpreting requirements of it being 'quick and dirty'.

Or - you could have a manager who lacking in perspective, which is entirely common.

To boot: you could be both right, or both wrong as well.

Boss could be needlessly nitpicking, at the same time as he's right about the time required. Maybe he's just in a bad mood, or under pressure, or miscommunication the requirements himself.

It's also very typical of devs to nitpick their own projects and fuss around features they don't really need, corner cases etc. and forget the 'big picture' and take too long.

It's a really, really hard thing to fathom.

I suggest talking to your manager, letting them know that you thought you were doing well enough, that it's a surprise to you, and maybe dig in a bit on the 'actual requirements', make sure that 'timeline' is part of that. Also take a moment to make sure that you're leveraging the right tools and team knowledge, and that you're on board with the internal coding standards, and make sure to ask about communicating - its' important to you that you're doing a good job, so if something is 'off' you want to know right away from your boss. Oddly, if there are weekly updates or something along those lines ... none of this should be a surprise.

Finally: Don's Sweat It.

It's going to be ambiguous like this for the rest of your career, whatever you do. Try your best to put it into context, roll with it, keep your chin up, move on. If you're even asking questions like this, you're probably going to be ok.

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#238
post #229
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with this sentiment. And in fact, I’ll take it further: I’m not sure any “you should have” phrase is ever beneficial UNLESS it’s in the context of giving guidance about the future. And even then, it’s better to phrase it as “next time, I would suggest…” This has been a pet peeve of mine for a long time. “You should have” phrases are often used to berate or make the recipient feel bad while acting as a vent fo…

It can be used in the context of explaining what changes that need to be made to someone's work for it to be acceptable. "You should have used established crypto library calls here instead of rolling your own SHA-256 implementation with probable bugs. Please fix it" I also think it works well, better than "next time I would", for giving someone permission to do things. "You should have called me when the client asked…

>"You should have used established crypto library calls here instead of rolling your own SHA-256 implementation with probable bugs. Please fix it"

in this case, i would say something like "hey, we need ot[or should] use a cryto library here since it's battle tested, rolling your own crypto might have issues [yadda yadda yadda]".

it makes it feel like it's not a single developer decision, but a team/company wide one.

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#240
> I had no idea that he felt this way before the meeting

Meaning, your manager did not say anything about her boss being disappointed with how long things were taking?

> I have no clue what happened in that meeting and I haven't heard anything about it from either of them since.

This and the observation above, assuming it's true (that your manager never said anything about her boss being disappointed), makes me think you might be putting more weight than necessary on what happened in the meeting with your boss. At the very least, you might want to double check.

One way to double check would be to ask some coworkers for feedback on your manager's boss and his communication style. Are the kinds of things he said in the meeting with you signs that he's really disappointed and might ask your manager to take some action, or are they just spur of the moment things that don't imply any longer term consequences?

Another way to double check would be to schedule a 1 on 1 with your manager (if you don't already have regularly scheduled 1 on 1s, otherwise just use the next scheduled one) and say that it looks to you like the project is pretty much done but you want to make sure there aren't any loose ends. Then briefly describe what you've completed, and what still needs to be done, and ask if there is anything else that you need to do to finish the project off. During your description, you should mention the key criticisms that your boss had and describe what you learned from them and how you are hoping to apply what you learned to your next project. Your manager's reactions and feedback during all of this should be informative.

> it feels like an inauspicious start

Actually, for a first project in your first job out of college, you should expect to make mistakes. We all do at that stage of our careers. If at the end of the day the project is done and meets requirements (and I'm assuming that's the case here, since you say the deadline was moved and is still in the future and you say it's pretty much done), overall it's a success. The real question here is how your manager and her boss deal with the fact that you, in your first project in your first job out of college, made mistakes but still ended up delivering a successful project. Good managers and bosses recognize that newbies will make mistakes, and will be looking for signs that you learned from those mistakes so you won't make the same ones on your next project.

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