Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

news.ycombinator.com

201–210 of 506 posts

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#201
post #91

Putting on my (thankfully former) manager hat, I'd say that you are bearing the brunt of your boss's poor planning. As others have commented, you getting blamed by a skip-level manager is a bad sign and something is off. But, now that you know that, don't turn around and blame your manager for it or make a big stink. It will not be in your favor to make a big stink, especially if it's to take sides against them in a…

> (thankfully former) manager hat

Care to elaborate? (I'm considering starting a small thoughtbot-like company that focuses on elixir/functional languages primarily, where I'd mostly play dev-shepherd)

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#202
I am late to the party, but I also wanted to suggest learning to develop techniques for dealing with “this kind of attack.”

This may not be the last time you have this energy directed your way.

Your options are:

1. Make excuses or argue or “explain”

Looks really weak and doesn’t garner respect. Especially from asshole managers. Arguing will inflame them, they will take it as disrespect.

If they are in a mood to send a message, then explaining won’t get you anywhere. They want to yell at you to feel powerful. Explaining won’t help.

2. Take the beating

Just listen and don’t say anything. Neutral strategy, you don’t win or lose anything. But you also don’t prevent situation in the future.

If this is a one time thing, maybe it never happens again and you are better avoiding any escalation.

You turn into a doormat eventually, you are giving them a “free move.”

3. Restate their complaint before they complain (take their weapons away)

This is an extreme pro maneuver. If you have a truly aggressive boss, and I have had a few, you can anticipate their attacks in advance and state them up front.

This kind of managers attacks are often predictable.

This technique leaves your attacker with absolutely nothing to say. I use this on my own Manager to diffuse them.

This is a very powerful method, because you have to be willing to understand the situation from their view in advance.

Open the meeting with “so I know you are angry about how slowly this project has been going and probably think I suck at coding is that right? … “

This technique comes from the book “never split the difference.” You try to trigger them to agree with you up front. Once you do that; they are out of ammunition.

Lean into the punches takes the power away from them. But this requires extreme skill.

4. Blame on others by taking responsibility for their actions

This is a technique from the book “Stealing The Corner Office.”

You make your manager look weak by taking responsibility for misinterpreting them.

“I think I must be responsible because I misinterpreted Manager X when he said Y. I will work with X to clarify my understanding.”

This is kind of a passive aggressive strategy which indirectly blames your manager and makes it sound like he is actually the problem.

Anyways, I recommend reading both the books I mentioned earlier.

With aggressive managers I prefer to lean into the punches and take their attacks away.

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#203

Shrug it off and keep your head down. Keep on producing good work. Your manager should of deflected this sort of stuff and you are a junior developer. The responsibility doesn't really fall on you. Take some notes about what you can do better on future projects and try and improve. Rinse and repeat. Gj on delivering.

Agreed. No reason to panic. Your experience is not at all unusual. The further up the management hierarchy you go the more results oriented they become. At a certain level of management profit & loss, delivering faster at less cost become the focus of attention. Your immediate manager might be coping some flak from his manager. But that is not for you to be concerned about.

Simply continue to produce good work. Learn from the more senior devs and remain respectfully accepting of comments from your manager's manager and anybody further up. Remembering that they do not have sufficiently detailed knowledge about what you do but they like to think that they do. Being diplomatic means that you never debate with them. If they make any substantial suggestions, discuss them with your immediate manager and ask them for advice on how to proceed.

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#204
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He told me to my face he "would not have chosen me" and "didn't know how I got in." Holy shit. Glad that this person got managed out... eventually.

Can be motivitating words for some people. Coaches will say stuff like this to a talented athlete who is underachieving, if they think it will light a fire. A good manager would not say stuff like that unless he really felt the person would take it the right way. A bad manager will say stuff like that to stroke his own ego.

I don't think tech managers should be taking management lessons from Full Metal Jacket in any case. But I sat at a lunch table with this guy every day for 3 years, and I know he was not trying to motivate me. He was trying to keep me in my place.

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#206

Your boss is gaslighting & intimidating you. - Do not be intimidated into thinking you did your work poorly. I've seen this happen many times with employees being guilt tripped, especially the younger more junior employees. You are a professional and the work you do is important for the company, you do it with pride and to the best of your ability. - Beware of gaslighting. Some bosses can be incredibly manipulative a…

Since this comment became somewhat popular I'll post the entire guide here. I wrote this a while ago for someone else. It summarises some of my own struggles after being let go from a company I cared for deeply. Not all companies and bosses are the same, but even well intentioned people can have some of these traits depending on the situation. The end goal is to have a good work/life balance and not work yourself to…

You have a lot of cautionary advice here which would be good for people to have awareness, but I have to say it comes across as very confrontational advice rooted in an us vs them culture that may be very much influenced by where you worked and what you went through. I'm sure these are all learned defense mechanisms but I'd beware of this way of living life.

Sure you can hypothetically get in trouble later if you share your life issue with a colleague and somehow this would bite you later, but you also may have a lifelong friend or simply a friendly face to talk to.

Your advice reads as a guide on "How to make sure your feelings never get hurt from work" whereas you can optimize for somewhere more in the middle where you allow yourself more freedom and happiness by increasing the risk of some potential but less likely bad outcomes.

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#207

> Part of the reason it had taken so long is because I put a substantial amount of work into a part of the project that's no longer necessary due to changing requirements, which I don't think I could have forseen. One of the things that I've experienced with new grad junior devs is that there's an adjustment needed to change from academic working to business working. In academia, usually the professor gives an assign…

Thanks. I definitely will take that into consideration in the future. I'm not sure if it would have helped in this specific case but I can definitely think of other situations at work where taking your advice would have helped me.

I’m afraid the boss’ boss was talking with the wrong part of your team, in that his criticism really seems made for your boss, not you? That said, you were not treated like a novice at all, being given a fair share of high-level feedback. Take it as a nudge to improve and do better, without thinking too much: it will be your manager’s job to assess your output fairly.

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#208
post #103
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with this sentiment. And in fact, I’ll take it further: I’m not sure any “you should have” phrase is ever beneficial UNLESS it’s in the context of giving guidance about the future. And even then, it’s better to phrase it as “next time, I would suggest…” This has been a pet peeve of mine for a long time. “You should have” phrases are often used to berate or make the recipient feel bad while acting as a vent fo…

The only counterexample I can think of is the present tense. For example: You have kids, you should have life insurance.

Yes - you're absolutely right. I should have (ha!) specified I meant in the context of a past participle ("you should have "), not the present suggestive (is that the right term?) -- eg "you should have " or even "you should "

Man, grammar is weird. ;)

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#210
He is a bad boss. He is trying some weird power game. How do you proceed?

- You can challenge him back with logical facts - You can agree with him and include him in the process make it as team failure - You could treat his opinions as not important - You could quit and look for a more emotional supporting place - You could ignore it and let it eat you up - You could ignore it and realize some form of this non-sense exists everywhere and learning how to deal with it is your next step

Post reply on HN