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Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

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Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#191
I've seen this happen a lot. 9 times out of 10, it's actually not about your specific job performance, but actually about setting expectations (which it turns out, IS part of your job)

Your boss doesn't know all the details, but they see the end result (a delay), so they jump in and critique everything in sight.

What they probably need is to be looped in throughout the project and made aware of major decisions that change the end result or whatever it is that they care about (timeline / impact of the work).

Here's a template I use for managing expectations upwards: https://www.notion.so/Manage-your-manager-26a26b82bd824f97bf...

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#192
Because this is your first full time professional position, I'm inclined to accept that some of the criticisms are genuine and you have a growth opportunity to learn from them.

BUT

The part that bothers me, as someone who has been in this industry for almost 25 years and leads teams, is that your manager was not in that meeting with you. That I find absolutely unacceptable.

Your manager is not just the person you report to. They are also responsible for your success and they should be your advocate. This type of feedback should be coming from them, not the higher-ups.

The higher-ups should look to your manager to manage, and your manager should look to you to accomplish your duties. The higher-ups should not have enough insight into the day to day minutia of your project to know to point the finger at you. They should get status reports from the project manager and if things aren't going smoothly they will ask why, but a good PM will point the finger at themselves and protect their team. And if there is a problem with an individual team member they will address that one on one in private before escalating.

If that feedback is not addressed then the project manager may escalate to your direct manager/boss who is then responsible to work with you more. Again, one on one in private.

If, after all of that ... things still aren't improving, then it can be escalated to HR and they can take additional action. But unless you are leading a project, you are not accountable for the success of that project as a whole and - I'm going to sound like a broken record here but - any direct feedback pertaining to you individually should come from the project manager or your direct manager.

Under no circumstances should you have been in a meeting with your boss's boss to discuss your performance without your direct boss being present.

The thing that would be troubling me the most, if I were you, is the question: "Why did this happen? Why are you on your boss's boss' radar at all?"

The implication of that question really bothers me. It implies that your manager(s) might have thrown you under the bus to cover their own ass.

Absolutely evaluate the feedback and see if you can grow from it. But I would have a conversation with your boss and basically call them out for not being there to advocate for you. And ask them how such an inappropriate meeting was allowed to transpire in the first place. You deserve answers.

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#193

Your boss is gaslighting & intimidating you. - Do not be intimidated into thinking you did your work poorly. I've seen this happen many times with employees being guilt tripped, especially the younger more junior employees. You are a professional and the work you do is important for the company, you do it with pride and to the best of your ability. - Beware of gaslighting. Some bosses can be incredibly manipulative a…

> - Stop caring too much about company problems, and focus on your own work. You should not care if the manager does his job poorly or if the company is not doing so well. It not your fault. They are running the business poorly. This entirely depends on whether you care about promotions. Understanding the company problems, and your manager's problems will directly impact your ability to get promoted in the future.

Junior dev should be able to jump ship for promotion without much issues

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#194
It seems like you are already analyzing the mistakes you made and will adjust in the future accordingly, so you’re already many steps ahead of many of the less successful engineers I’ve worked with. Many of them will just blame everyone and everything else for poor outcomes rather than accepting responsibility and trying to improve in the future.

My main advice: always under-promise and over-deliver. Managers don’t see code typically, they usually are more focused on deadlines. Be very pessimistic when discussing deadlines. Take your initial estimate and double it to account for potential problems. Be very clear about risks beforehand. And lastly, no one cares if you wrote some chunk of code or if someone under you did, all they care about is knowing who lead the team that delivered it on time. Be that person and you will be successful at almost any company.

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#195
Reading between the lines here...

> he basically tells me this project should have been finished a long time ago

Your boss' boss will always say this. The problem is the person in between. That person has been too afraid to tell their boss why things are running late, or can't. Basically, your boss has to stick up for you to their boss and take the heat and pass it down.

> He looks at the code and criticizes design decisions, some of which were made largely on my manager's explicit suggestions. (When I bring this up, he says I probably just misinterpreted an offhand comment of hers as a hard requirement.)

Ooof. This person may be covering for your boss for some reason (human or otherwise). This sounds like a bad dynamic. For example, he might be cutting her slack for some reason.

> Part of the reason it had taken so long is because I put a substantial amount of work into a part of the project that's no longer necessary due to changing requirements

ALWAYS push back on these. It is your job to (at least try hard to) stand firm on the original plan and if they want to make changes midstream, you must demand more time in exchange (as much as you think is necessary, and then add 50%). It is already hard enough as a developer to plan timely releases WITHOUT the ground shifting underneath you. It is your responsibility to make that clear. And you should be communicating on expectations regularly... in consulting that's called "managing expectations" and it's a good life skill generally.

> He did also make some criticisms that I thought were fair

It's always fine to acknowledge these.

> I have no clue what happened in that meeting and I haven't heard anything about it from either of them since.

Worry about the things you can control; there's no point to worrying about things you can't.

> I really did work hard, so it's demotivating that it feels like the result of me working hard is unappreciated. I'm not thinking of quitting over this or anything, but it seriously bums me out.

I'm still thinking that the problem is your immediate boss. Also, you should absolutely voice this concern to her.

> and I'm thinking that now they probably feel that they could fire me if they wanted and not lose much.

Two things. Don't screw over that guy just because you're afraid of that. And also, if it came to that, it's a fairly hot hiring market. Don't be afraid. Of all the times I've been let go (and there've been quite a few, partly because I had undiagnosed sleep apnea for YEARS), I always ended up in a better place.

> it feels like an inauspicious start.

It's true that your first few months at a company are judged harsher than after, because you haven't proven yourself yet. Just do a course correct and check in with boss on requirements more frequently if they are subject to change, and always push back on changes and press for more time, because you'll need it... midstream changes aren't magically easy to do. Don't burn time on making fancy abstract mechanisms, just focus on the simplest code that does the job, and always cover it with tests (make sure to incorporate that into your total dev time...)

If they still end up firing you anyway, it's OK, you did your best. Like I said, worry about the things you can control... if your boss and boss' boss have a weird dynamic which affects the perception of you, that's unfortunately not something you have control over

Good luck!

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#196

Your boss is gaslighting & intimidating you. - Do not be intimidated into thinking you did your work poorly. I've seen this happen many times with employees being guilt tripped, especially the younger more junior employees. You are a professional and the work you do is important for the company, you do it with pride and to the best of your ability. - Beware of gaslighting. Some bosses can be incredibly manipulative a…

Since this comment became somewhat popular I'll post the entire guide here. I wrote this a while ago for someone else. It summarises some of my own struggles after being let go from a company I cared for deeply. Not all companies and bosses are the same, but even well intentioned people can have some of these traits depending on the situation. The end goal is to have a good work/life balance and not work yourself to…

You should absolutely care if they company isn’t doing well. Companies that are failing bring more stress and fail to you

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#197
post #8

The first meeting where your manager just abandoned you and you ended up talking to your manager's boss is totally inappropriate. Being so new to the job basically all the responsibility is with your direct manager and her boss is wrong to dump on you without your manager present. I'd give it another chance though, sounds like the work is fun and maybe you can communicate your concerns to your direct manager.

This, big time. The other answers seem like victim blaming.

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#198
post #133

Don't sweat it too much, but it sounds to me like this organization has communication problems, and it's not really realistic to expect a fresh face to industry to identify them consistently and act proactively. I personally think your skip-level was having a bad day (in which case they may feel bad about how they said what they did) or an abrasive personality (in which case they may not). In the latter case, they ma…

I would agree. Abrasive managers aren't necessarily bad managers, though if the skip-level is abrasive enough that OP's direct managers is avoiding meetings with them that is a warning sign.

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#199
post #7

This boss telling you that they felt the project should have been done a long time ago: I wonder who that comment benefits? Feels like no one. You get bummed, they give late feedback without a lot of constructive aspects to it. I am trying to think of one way it was useful to tell you that, but I can’t. Seems like you should feel justified in not being a fan of working under this person. What you do with that is hard…

I mean, at the baseline I think it's useful to know you're not meeting expectations. Of course it's more useful to know in a timely manner.

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#200
Reading between the lines, it sounds like you're spending a disproportionate amount of effort on low-importance tasks. Don't forget that you're an employee for a business. The business sells solutions to customers and your job is to create those solutions (at least, assuming the company hasn't become huge and bloated).

Whether or not you're working diligently isn't really of huge importance if you're working on the wrong things.

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