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Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly uprising

reuters.com

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Re: Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly uprising

#301

Post by diskzero »

cmod wrote: post #37

My own experience in Kazakhstan a few years ago was amazing — kind, generous people. I had the most surreal (but standard) Russian Bath experience: sitting with a bunch of naked folks as they self-flog with branches in rooms so hot you needed wool caps to keep the top of your head from singeing. When I was getting dressed a huge guy next to me said something in Russian, I was certain I had committed some bath faux pa…

I spent a month in Kazakhstan in 2012. I am an American and speak and read decent Russian. I agree that the experience was amazing and agree with your opinions of Almaty and Nur-Sultan. I found the overall experience to be very similar to visiting other post-Soviet Central Asian countries.

Baikonur the city, not the cosmodrome, was an entirely different experience. Baikonur is essentially a Russian military outpost that continues to exist as a place for the personnel and families of Roscosmos and the various entities that exist to operate the cosmodrome, which is several kilometers away. You must pass through a military checkpoint to enter the city and military police patrol the city. Don't stay up late drinking in the central square! You will be helpfully escorted away by the militia.

If you talk to the local non-Russians living in Baikonur, they are not huge fans of the Russian presence. You can observe the youths swearing and yelling at the buses of Roscosmos personnel and tourists returning from launches. They would be glad to see the Russians leave, even though it would be a massive blow to the economy.

One of the first things the native Kazakhs did after the collapse of the Soviet Union was build a mosque right outside of the entrance of the city of Baikonur. It is quite nice and I visited it with no problem. Those who wish to attend mosque that live within city must pass through a checkpoint to leave the city and another to get in. There is no mosque allowed within the city, although there is a Russian Orthodox church, which I also visited with no problem.

The cosmodrome itself is an amazing place worthy of a huge essay, so I will save my observations for a topic relevant to that.

I am hopeful the Kazakh people can find a future free from Russian influence and the Russian-backed strongmen that have controlled the country in post-Soviet times. Other than Russian colonial outposts like Baikonur, the culture and religion of the people there are quite different that those of Russia.

Re: Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly uprising

#302

Post by jessaustin »

spitfire wrote: post #267
jessaustin wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there some sense in which this is not a "conspiracy theory"?

> Is there some sense in which this is not a "conspiracy theory Yes, in the sense that Aleksander Dugins foundations of geopolitics exists and is taught in military schools in Russia. It proposes - among other tactics, exactly this approach. Splitting hairs, gaslighting and exhaustion. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics

You have colored in some details, but it's still a theory about a secret project of mysterious Russians and Russia sympathizers, only now they're allied with some Russian version of Alex Jones.

It's worth noting that this special book was published during the reign of Yeltsin, a Clinton puppet installed and protected by various Western agencies. That could be a reason there is some consideration of similar actions in the opposite direction.

Re: Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly uprising

#303

Post by [deleted] »

KaiserPro wrote: post #218
fivea wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s as “foreign” as any NATO country’s army to another. I don't believe your comparison is even remotely adequate. Could you point out an example of a NATO member requesting a military intervention from another NATO member in their own country to respond to protests? Because what we're seeing here is a blatant attempt by Russia to preserve Kazakhstan's regime by having foreign armed forces intervene against the na…

I think you are missing the point I doubt OP is _condoning_ the CSTO troops (who are more than just russia) coming to the president's aid. CSTO is not the same as NATO, but it is similar. There is a strategic alliance between Russia and the government of Kazakhstan. It is more than logical for the president to pull in troops to counteract their own troop's defection. Its not morally correct, but entirely logical, whi…

[deleted]

Re: Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly uprising

#304

Post by PeterisP »

Xyloform wrote: post #163
siva7 wrote: post #87

Truly bizarre to ask as the head of state for foreign military intervention in your own country to dump down civil protest. Almost like it’s just a russian puppet state

Kazakhstan is part of the Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO) similar to Nato which comprises of ex-Soviet countries. I'm sure CSTO has an obligation to help.

Apparently they do not have such an obligation - after all, CSTO refused to help Armenia in the recent Azerbaijan-Armenia war, so from that perspective it's a bit surprising now CSTO including Armenia itself seems to consider that it's an obligation given that this case is obviously much less applicable than that war.

Re: Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly uprising

#305

Post by major505 »

epolanski wrote: post #298
major505 wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Countries like Kazakhstan, serve russia as a buffer state from the Nato influence. If near countries start to align with the west, Russia will start to feel personally attacked.

Buffer from what? Kazakhstan doesnt border Nato countries.

They do not care if Kazakhstan enter or not NATO. Is enougth if this countries are not stable so they became a Russia problem. I`m not saying this crisis have CIA handprints, but this skirmishs force Russia to put money, manpower and resources to apease it`s allies.

Re: Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly uprising

#306

Post by cmod »

googamooga wrote: post #107
cmod wrote: post #37

My own experience in Kazakhstan a few years ago was amazing — kind, generous people. I had the most surreal (but standard) Russian Bath experience: sitting with a bunch of naked folks as they self-flog with branches in rooms so hot you needed wool caps to keep the top of your head from singeing. When I was getting dressed a huge guy next to me said something in Russian, I was certain I had committed some bath faux pa…

Most probably the OP visited the left bank of River Ishim side of Nur-Sultan which is indeed quite dull and built for cars. OTOH the right bank, the historical city, is much better IMHO, especially the central part. I was born there in 1970 and visited it quite recently in 2019, nothing much have changed there, it is still very approachable by feet and cozy, with lots of great restaurants and shops.

Most likely; the thrust of the trip was Baikonur bookended by Almaty and Nur-Sultan.

Typographically I found it interesting that the country was attempting to shift away from Cyrillic to a more romanized (??) written form; i.e., "Qazaqstan."

Re: Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly uprising

#307

Post by SuperNinKenDo »

2-718-281-828 wrote: post #229
CodeGlitch wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a really interesting video blogger called "bald and bankrupt" on YouTube who visits all sorts of weird and wonderful locations in Russia and former Soviet Union States: https://www.youtube.com/c/baldandbankrupt/featured Doesn't look like he's been to Kazakhstan yet though...

https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldAndBaldrDossier/comments/judnlm...

Wow, thanks for sharing. Very disturbing stuff.

Re: Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly uprising

#308

Post by thejackgoode »

Jon_Lowtek wrote: post #290
thejackgoode wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For example, ex-nomadic and Caucasian “honor culture” is linked to necessity of trust in regions with predominant animal husbandry. If your cattle gets stolen before winter, you die of hunger. That’s why honor killings and hospitality are the flip sides of the same coin — you can’t afford losing trust. Robert Sapolsky gave a lecture about it.

While i can't make absolute statements of what he may or may not have said in every lecture he ever gave, i doubt Sapolsky would claim that honor killings and hospitality are the flip sides of the same coin. In "Behave The Biology of Humans at Our Best and Worst" Sapolsky differentiates "honor killings" as inwards violence, whose victims are usually young women, from "retribution" against animal thieves, and links it…

Here’s a piece that I found, I vaguely remember there was more in that lecture on the topic:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Nz3hBuq-Huk

While it’s possible to differentiate these two things like you mentioned, if you look at honor as a concept, it’s useful function is about curbing higher cost of distrust. And that Sapolsky does explain in the linked video.

Re: Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly uprising

#309

Post by sofixa »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #295
sofixa wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's precisely what Putin is doing now, threatening Ukraine and insisting NATO commit to not admitting Sweden, Finland and Ukraine in.

I understand. Russia is no doubt pressuring Ukraine but I don't know if that's because they they want a buffer or they just don't want a stronger NATO.

I don't think Ukraine, Sweden, Finland would significantly strengthen NATO. If anything, Ukraine is a liability (huge border with Russia and practically in war with them, territorial disputes about Crimea, etc.). The way I understand it, Putin doesn't want any more NATO members on Russia's borders, aka a buffer between Russia and NATO.

Re: Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly uprising

#310

Post by postnik0706 »

All this happening in Kazakhstan is so scary. Our family - my wife and myself - lived in Almaty till we were in our thirties, then moved to Canada and then US. Our relatives still live there. Everything you'd call normal life went fubar in a just a few days. The town is in ruins, or at least its center, there is no law or police presence in there. Banks, grocery and other stores are looted and there is literally nothing left in there. Who did all this - nobody knows. Nobody of the locals know anything, in fact. No internet, no TV, no news. I truly wish nobody ever has this kind of experience in their life.
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