Crypto: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly • Hacker News Board

Re: Crypto: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

#281

Post by _57jb » Thu, Jan 06, 2022, 6:39 PM UTC

randomhodler84 wrote: post #226

rvz wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK. I am convinced. The entire cryptocurrency industry is a scam. So rather than saying the same thing over and over on every HN thread about it being a 'scam', let's do something about it then? How do we ban it all to save the planet and stop the scams everywhere then? Or are we going to complain on the next HN thread about cryptocurrencies and web3 once again?

How do you wanna ban it? Break my fingers so I can’t run some open source software? Break my hardware so It can’t Hash, cut my power? Arrest me for doing math? The battle is between the libertarians and the authoritarians. The authoritarians want to ban things they don’t understand. They want to bully others with their choice of how they use energy. They want the state boot stomping on the face of humanity forever. B…

It's amazing that this is being downvoted.

Such a simple and straightforward argument and instead of having it they'd rather hide it. I wonder why.

Re: Crypto: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

#282

Post by _57jb » Thu, Jan 06, 2022, 6:41 PM UTC

spadros wrote: post #251

danuker wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> driven primarily by pure greed and wishful thinking. What's wrong about greed? Why not channel it to create a better world? For every trade, both "greedy" sides see themselves better off, otherwise there would be no trade. This increases the quality of life for everyone.

I didn’t realize we had any Ferengi on Hacker News. You’re ignoring his point that it doesn’t justify the waste and damage that’s being done.

How much waste and damage is being done by the banking data centers and associates globally?

Care to take a guess where that damage stands?

Re: Crypto: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

#283

Post by _57jb » Thu, Jan 06, 2022, 6:52 PM UTC

ls15 wrote: post #121

jasongi wrote: post #115

I don't understand how any take on crypto can not mention that it is now the de-facto currency of online black markets, from pornhub to silk road 9.0 or whatever version we're up to. This is crypto's utility and the only thing I've seen crypto being used for seriously that isn't speculation. Cryptocurrency is disrupting the black markets the same way amazon/ebay/online shopping disrupted the retail markets. Crypto is…

Speculation is a use case and a market too

Yeah. I think speculation can be good when you don't have the speculators at the top of the food chain.

I'm talking specifically about the Friedman Doctrine and making companies beholden to shareholders in the United States. It's been proven that it doesn't work yet we still have that structure.

Predicting future direction can get people deeply invested in an investigative way but when they hold the reigns they can coerce entities to follow their direction

Re: Crypto: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

#284

Post by _57jb » Thu, Jan 06, 2022, 6:56 PM UTC

cuteboy19 wrote: post #276

ls15 wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you withdraw a couple of hours later?

By that time the coin would have crashed 30% more

why wouldn't you just leverage a stable coin if you are looking for speed?

The slowest part of this are the banks and the clearing houses. They essentially "trust" other institutions to a certain extent and vouch for the money until it officially arrives on the books. You should read up on FedNet

if you are worried about volatility there are less volatile options inside of crypto

Re: Crypto: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

#285

Post by _57jb » Thu, Jan 06, 2022, 7:13 PM UTC

grey-area wrote: post #205

shard wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's very interesting, could you answer a few questions, or point me to some resource which explains in more detail? 1. How does this story end? 2. Which Fed announcement are you referring to? That rates will be raised? What do you mean the party's over, that speculation will decrease and prices will drop? 3. "This impacts tech stocks which are not making money and not likely to make money" You mean that this will…

1. IMO it ends in inflation and crisis or stock crash and crisis, it's created a very unstable system addicted to fed stimulus. Possible of course that the fed can keep printing and try to prolong the agony a little longer. 2. For the last few months and more strongly recently the Fed has been signalling that they are going to taper stimulus, hence the rocky ride in the US stock market (driven to spectacular highs ov…

The last point you made about cryptocurrencies fleecing others bit built with intent to prevent market distortion is dead on.

People getting into crypto in fratboy style have gone on the rollercoaster and often are pushing it to their desires.

In the history of money (I'm talking U.S. at this point but other countries have their story) this carpet bagging happened earlier on... we've just been using it long enough that the story was forgotten and long before our time.

I'm referring to the Gold Reserve act Executive Order 1602 of 1933 where gold was required by law to be turned in at an exchange of $20/oz and a year later jacked up to $35/oz an ounce.

This decoupled the Federal Reserve from backing credit with gold, etc. The story continues but you get my point.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102#:~:text....

Re: Crypto: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

#286

Post by _57jb » Thu, Jan 06, 2022, 7:19 PM UTC

rland wrote: post #141

dskloet wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being able to transfer value across the internet without the permission of a middle man, is valuable in the real world.

No, you can’t. If you follow the axioms of the cryptocurrency evangelists to their logical ends, transferring cryptocurrency to another wallet is something that happens entirely in virtual space. Of course, this virtual space is coupled with physical space, by hugely centralized entities called exchanges. To get your money across the border, you need to deal with them. In that case the physical value you can buy with…

I can send money from a cold wallet to any address I want.

An exchange is merely a full node with a user interface.

To operate as an exchange there are certain KYC/AML rules they must follow.

Setting up a node takes about 20 minutes and then letting it sync for a couple hours to a day depending on your internet.

You can send crypto with as high or low as a fee as you want...it's just a manipulation of the queueing metric and which transactions miners add to the chain. With exchanges they set that for you.

Re: Crypto: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

#287

Post by Animats » Thu, Jan 06, 2022, 7:42 PM UTC

NicoJuicy wrote: post #103

Animats wrote: post #67

'"Tokens align network participants to work together toward a common goal — the growth of the network and the appreciation of the token." That's great if what you're trying to do is create an ecosystem of tokens that appreciate in value all the time. What percentage of systems can be modeled that way?' That's the problem. "An ecosystem of tokens that appreciate in value all the time". The perpetual motion machine of…

Ubisoft Quarts had 15 sales for 50$, total revenue: 745$ - https://objkt.com/collection/ubisoftquartz And only 0.665 % earns money on OpenSea. Concentration of it is way less, you can just crawl the collections. 5 collections dominate all the rest and only the first 266 collections earned > 0 eth. The other 40 k. earned 0 eth. It's obviously not a way for an artist to earn any money. https://pastebin.com/NyLMcs7c Scr…

What does "market cap" mean here? The sum of asking prices? That's meaningless. You can put any asking price you want on something, and through a wash sale, even put it on the blockchain.

Re: Crypto: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

#288

Post by soco » Thu, Jan 06, 2022, 8:10 PM UTC

randomhodler84 wrote: post #197

jasongi wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but I think the risk is overrated. Almost all online shops outsource payment processing to a third party payment gateway, which you can validate pretty easily. They never get access to your details in order to abuse them. Third party payment processor breaches where CC data is lost are quite rare I don't think I've read about one in a very long time. Sure, I guess you can't get phished out of secrets with crypt…

The last time my cc was compromised is when the bad guys injected js into a large e-commerce site and stole the card data. This is a real threat. I’d rather not use any pull based payment mechanism if possible. Push only.

And couldn't a similar trick be used to steal my wallet, or to hack an exchange?

Re: Crypto: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

#289

Post by Animats » Thu, Jan 06, 2022, 10:03 PM UTC

iskander wrote: post #105

Animats wrote: post #67

'"Tokens align network participants to work together toward a common goal — the growth of the network and the appreciation of the token." That's great if what you're trying to do is create an ecosystem of tokens that appreciate in value all the time. What percentage of systems can be modeled that way?' That's the problem. "An ecosystem of tokens that appreciate in value all the time". The perpetual motion machine of…

>I kind of liked the idea of NFTs as part of an asset portability system for virtual worlds. Goldman Sachs even endorsed that. I was thinking of this for items in the US$1 - US$100 range, like game items. The transaction costs would be too high if it took a blockchain transaction to walk through a portal, even for the cheap blockchains. This is theoretically possible on Zero Knowledge rollup L2s (two strongest conten…

theoretically possible

zkSync says they don't have their test net for smart contracts up yet. StarkNet is in alpha.

For this problem, it's OK if change commit verification takes a while, as long as it's cheap. If you move your no-copy NFT from grid A to grid B, grid B can verify that you own it, even though the current state is on grid A, and let you show it on grid B. A slow check later by each grid can prevent persistent dual copies. It's like catching double spends later. It's consistent eventually.

This is one of the things NFT proponents talk about - being able to move your truly-owned asset from one grid to another. However, so far there seem to be zero implementations. NFT land is tied up with make-money-fast right now. Potentially useful low-cost applications aren't getting done.

Re: Crypto: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

#290

Post by Animats » Thu, Jan 06, 2022, 10:06 PM UTC

mgaunard wrote: post #108

Animats wrote: post #67

'"Tokens align network participants to work together toward a common goal — the growth of the network and the appreciation of the token." That's great if what you're trying to do is create an ecosystem of tokens that appreciate in value all the time. What percentage of systems can be modeled that way?' That's the problem. "An ecosystem of tokens that appreciate in value all the time". The perpetual motion machine of…

Isn't money supposed to depreciate over time rather than appreciate?

Depends. Some gold seller used to advertise that in 1400 AD an ounce of gold would buy two good suits, and today it will buy about two good suits.