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Chatbots: Still dumb after all these years

mindmatters.ai

101–110 of 426 posts

Re: Chatbots: Still dumb after all these years

#101

I've never had a good experience with a chatbot. They're the equivalent of waiting on hold on the telephone with your bank and the recording asking you over and over if you know that you can accomplish some simple and completely unrelated task on the web site. It's even worse when chatbots pretend to be real people, though I've seen less of that lately. The Apple Card chatbot is one of the worst I've used. This is an…

>They're the equivalent of waiting on hold on the telephone with your bank and the recording asking you over and over if you know that you can accomplish some simple and completely unrelated task on the web site.

Glad to know I am not the only one hating that.

Re: Chatbots: Still dumb after all these years

#102

I really hate when companies hide behind chatbots. Like, NOOOO, your "AI" chatbot didn't help me - get me an actual person.

Still doesn’t piss me off as much as automated phone support systems. 90% of the time they only offer options that I could easily go online to do. If I’m calling your phone number. It’s because I have a problem that’s not solved or clarified by your existing self-support systems.

They do that because a significant number of people will call rather than check the website first.

My issue is that they often don't give you the "none-of-the-above please let me speak to a real person" option--or they hide it.

Re: Chatbots: Still dumb after all these years

#103

I really hate when companies hide behind chatbots. Like, NOOOO, your "AI" chatbot didn't help me - get me an actual person.

We have a chatbot on our marketing site but it says something like "I am a Bot. Once I ask you a couple of questions, I can connect you to a human. Is that ok ?".

If the end result is getting to chat with a human, that's fine. But so many of these are just a different interface to search the FAQs, and the end result is to link to the FAQs. That's useless.

Re: Chatbots: Still dumb after all these years

#104
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a good thing. The market is very good at empirically validating research. It helps filter out the chaff and ensure research is useful. Better than academia wasting years on concepts like the "semantic web" where nobody can even agree on what it means. Academia is under attack from many political directions right now, being able to show useful output will help it thrive in the long run.

> The market is very good at empirically validating research. It helps filter out the chaff and ensure research is useful. I am very skeptical and would like to see studies that evidence this. Counterfactually, the market would never tolerate the decades of research behind MRNA vaccines and the researchers behind it were considered useless. The market has also put in mind-blowing amounts of money towards the ameloid…

I agree with you.

I don't think the market is good at validating any ideas or research. Salespeople will talk up their product to no end and over promise. The only thing the market validates is the ability of people to sell crap

Being able to sell something doesn't necessarily mean that thing is good or correct in any way

Re: Chatbots: Still dumb after all these years

#105
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a problem is the tighter cycle between academic discoveries and business people trying to monetize them. Large language models were developed, objectively a great achievement, and immediately someone nontechnical wants to apply their own interpretation and imagine that we can build a chatbot that you won't have to pay, and before you know it, people are selling and even deploying them. Anyone who questions or…

That's a good thing. The market is very good at empirically validating research. It helps filter out the chaff and ensure research is useful. Better than academia wasting years on concepts like the "semantic web" where nobody can even agree on what it means. Academia is under attack from many political directions right now, being able to show useful output will help it thrive in the long run.

I can understand your reason for saying this, (useful things often sell well) but a market only validates that people are willing to pay for something, not that it is ‘valid’ empirically.

Re: Chatbots: Still dumb after all these years

#106
post #12

My favourite flaw of chatbots is exposed by ELIZA. Not chatting with ELIZA, (though, it does suffer this flaw) but using responses inspired by that program. "Please elaborate on that" or "tell me more about [noun]" etc. Bots appear to have zero lines of short term memory, and utterly fail to pick up a reference to the thing that they just said. My favorite being bot> [something plausibly human-sounding] me> What do y…

Eliza was modeled after Rogerian styled psychology, it uses an almost Socratic method to illicit and draw out responses from users.

Re: Chatbots: Still dumb after all these years

#107
post #88

Most people only see the AI/ML aspects or the ability to respond like human. But what's adding value is the chatbot's interface. Working for a chatbot company that hit $1M revenue I can say the chatbot interface solves a good problem. There's a good chunk of people who are stressed in having to be comfortable with vide variety of website interfaces. For my dad who's over 60 years struggles with the government's inter…

But it doesn't need to be a bot - lots of companies have conversational interfaces that aren't robots.

Edit: Or maybe they're just really good chatbots!

Re: Chatbots: Still dumb after all these years

#108
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately I think they've found that most people don't(won't?) do that self debugging. Relevant xkcd: https://xkcd.com/806/

They could do a better job of separating the two. Most companies would save their time and mine if they had a callback system which took as many details as possible up front & didnt have to ask my name and account details because Im already logged in. Even better if it could give me some warning about where I am in the queue and when the call might be coming (e.g. via push notification). I'd 1000x prefer that over an…

> They could do a better job of separating the two.

When support is purely viewed as a cost, then this will never happen. 99% plus of your call volume may be for the obvious things. If you offer two options all of those people are going to be more confused than they already are and you will have some of them engaged by costly humans.

> Unfortunately it seems call centres are driven by very traditional metrics which wouldnt lead anybody to set up a system like this.

You are getting to the higher level point here. Costs need to be minimized so you go with the cheapest vendor available and then try to squeeze everything you can out of that. If you can send someone to an AI, again, after you've put them in the direct of a human, there is the possibility of deflecting further cost. Depending on the scenario these cost savings can rack up for both the company and the support vendor. All the time, the humans doing the support or creating the solutions forming the basis of the AI get treated pretty poorly.

Support at a particular scale will start to skew this way unless there are strong forcing functions in the organization. For example, sales need to be able able to sell support which needs to be backed up by solid people, and keep getting renewed. If you offer predominantly free support then you don't have much wiggle room. When PMs and devs only focus on new features and not fixing real issues raised by customers, or more importantly in many ways, proactively identified by support people, then you lose support people and make toil for those remaining.

Lastly, recognizing support people as an asset, will result in better behaviors and attracting more talent. Many times companies struggle badly with this and then decide to just outsource it. Promoting people from support into sales or deeper tech roles over the long-temr can also be pretty cost effective versus hiring outside. Many folks on HN will have done support at one point and felt they could have contributed much more in other roles.

Re: Chatbots: Still dumb after all these years

#109
post #12

My favourite flaw of chatbots is exposed by ELIZA. Not chatting with ELIZA, (though, it does suffer this flaw) but using responses inspired by that program. "Please elaborate on that" or "tell me more about [noun]" etc. Bots appear to have zero lines of short term memory, and utterly fail to pick up a reference to the thing that they just said. My favorite being bot> [something plausibly human-sounding] me> What do y…

I'm not trying to be mean or break any HN rules, but did you read the article? It basically covers what you asked and was quite a revelation to me. Others in here point out that GPT-3 is not a chatbot which is good info, but I also wonder if there is anything out there that can even "remember" the context of a conversation it's supposed to be having. Particularly interesting is the question from the article, "who is…

Google Meena

https://ai.googleblog.com/2020/01/towards-conversational-age...

Re: Chatbots: Still dumb after all these years

#110
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a problem is the tighter cycle between academic discoveries and business people trying to monetize them. Large language models were developed, objectively a great achievement, and immediately someone nontechnical wants to apply their own interpretation and imagine that we can build a chatbot that you won't have to pay, and before you know it, people are selling and even deploying them. Anyone who questions or…

That's a good thing. The market is very good at empirically validating research. It helps filter out the chaff and ensure research is useful. Better than academia wasting years on concepts like the "semantic web" where nobody can even agree on what it means. Academia is under attack from many political directions right now, being able to show useful output will help it thrive in the long run.

> The market is very good at empirically validating research.

The market can do this, if it’s correctly incentivized to do so.

More often than not, the incentives just aren’t there or are compelling enough.

Often it’s other businesses that put up such disincentives.

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