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Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly uprising

reuters.com

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Re: Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly uprising

#251

Post by formerly_proven »

slapeel wrote: post #241
VictorPath wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The nom de guerre Pol Pot didn't appear in the New York Times until August 1976, which was after things calmed down in Cambodia. Which makes your assertion he was doing so at the time unlikely. Vietnam invaded Cambodia and the US began arming Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge in the late 1970s and 1980s, which again the Times covered, although slightly obliquely. Chomsky condemned the US arming Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge.

Buzz off with your revisionism. Chomsky said the numerous reports of mass murder were a sea of lies. History has proven him dead wrong. He should have known better but was blinded by his ideology; all too eager to believe America was making it all up, and all too eager to believe leftists wouldn't commit such crimes.

He later did the exact same thing during the Bosnian war and the Srebrenica massacre in particular (where Chomsky among other things defended a publication called "Living Marxism" which published a completely made up article alleging Western media turned a a "refugee center" into a concentration camp including faking photos including that particular photo that looked like a KZ you might remember from that war. Chomsky has defended and assumed the position of LM on this into the 2010s).

Now you might say "surely he has come to his senses", except Chomsky went on to spread lies about the Sarin gas attacks in Syria.

There's probably more.

Re: Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly uprising

#252

Post by gnull »

codebolt wrote: post #200
gnull wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We could distribute the mining farms to people's homes to warm them up, this way everyone wins.

Yes, outfitting all poor villagers in Kazakhstan with highly expensive computers seems like a realistic solution.

(It was a joke.)

Re: Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly uprising

#253

Post by q1w2 »

siva7 wrote: post #87

Truly bizarre to ask as the head of state for foreign military intervention in your own country to dump down civil protest. Almost like it’s just a russian puppet state

This comment lacks nuance and is brim with sarcasm.

Understanding geopolitics is an exercise nuance. Kazakhstan has to deal with huge and strong foreign adversaries, and has no strong alliances, yet must protect distant cities which all border China, Russia, and central asian nations, with a large desert in the center. It is militarily indefensible and Russia, Turkey, Pakistan, and the US, all want Kazakhstan's resources and strategically located bases.

Contrary to your sentiment, Kazakhstan has been conducting de-Russianification with the deployment of language police to stop people from using Russian, and switching from the Cyrillic alphabet to the latin one.

Below is an excellent article describing all the different pressures on the country and how it tries to balance foreign influences.

https://globalcomment.com/is-russia-losing-or-tightening-its...

Interestingly, the most violent and organized protests are occurring in the South bordering China and Kyrgystan - a city which has people selling gov't subsidized cheap gas over the border in China on the black market for a 300% profit. That might be a big source for the organized violence. Curbing black market sales was the point of the change that sparked the unrest.

Regardless of the cause, it is likely Russia is going to capitalize on this turmoil and provide continuity for the current President, by extracting some allegiance.

Re: Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly uprising

#254

Post by scotty79 »

ericmay wrote: post #106
scotty79 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia's interests are aligned with western companies interests that buy Russian exports. Also I'm not changing the subject because we have a whole branching forum here, not a single coversation that can talk only about one thing at a time. If you are not interested in that branch of the discussion simply skip it.

> Russia's interests are aligned with western companies interests that buy Russian exports. Just to be clear you are blaming “the west” (US, UK, Sweden, France, Canada, Switzerland, etc.) for Russian intervention in Kazakhstan because those countries buy Russian products? (Leaving aside all the other countries in the world which do the same but w/e).

Just to be clear I'm saying that western companies will benefit from maintaining regime in Kazakhstan. And Putin helping with this, is getting him further on the good side of wealthy people in the west.

I'm not blaming anybody for anything. It's just business.

Re: Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly uprising

#255

Post by siva7 »

poilcn wrote: post #248
siva7 wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alright, the civilian protesters are now “criminals” who are getting shot down by government forces. I guess these “terrorists” deserve what they get. Thanks for enlightening me.

If the government is "bad" it doesn't make everyone who stands against it "good". It doesn't make everyone who is against the government unified body with one positive goal. You don't need all the "protesters" to be thugs. 1% is enough to make cities dangerous place for everyone, including other protesters. You know nothing about the country or the people who live there or what exactly going on right now, but automat…

Tell us more. What do you know what we don’t?

Re: Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly uprising

#256

Post by crisdux »

mlindner wrote: post #43

Lots of weird extremely Russian-patriot sounding comments in this thread. Russia is sending paratroopers because they don't want another Ukraine situation. They don't want Kazakhstan to break away from Russia because of a popular uprising like Ukraine did. And it's a lot easier for them to prevent it than it was for Ukraine because Ukraine doesn't border Europe so the west won't protest it as much. I expect a whole l…

You should not dismiss these views as just Russian-patriot sounding. These views acknowledge a realpolitik world view. They also acknowledge Russia as a "great power". And of course Russia has interests in the affairs of nations in their immediate periphery. The united states has done the same and would do the same again in a heart beat. I am as American as they come but I think the world would be safer if we were truthful about balance of power politics in international affairs.

Re: Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly uprising

#257

Post by codebolt »

gnull wrote: post #252
codebolt wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, outfitting all poor villagers in Kazakhstan with highly expensive computers seems like a realistic solution.

(It was a joke.)

Was actually a bit unsure. With all the blind crypto idealism going around, it's getting hard to tell what's sarcasm anymore.

Re: Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly uprising

#258

Post by philistine »

usrusr wrote: post #221
glofish wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My sentiment is not about Kazakhstan in particular, It is about the rich westerner's naive gushing when visiting African, Eastern European, Central American remote villages etc "Everybody is so nice and generous around here ... not like back home in the civilized world" They confuse how people treat them in particular with what it is like living there.

One possible explanation for the pattern of generous hospitality in poor countries I find quite interesting (I'm sure it's only one component of many in the motivational environment) is that hosting the traveler from afar is the closest thing they can do to traveling themselves.

They're tourists in an area where they're uncommon. Outside places where they are very numerous, people always treat tourists well. It's simple, really.

Re: Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly uprising

#259

Post by philistine »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #169
whimsicalism wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, my Berkeley neighbor has been on my case for that bushel of corn for the last two decades

I'm sure if you borrowed some power tool and half broke it he'd be more than happy to call the city on you every time you violate one of the million rules for the next few decades. Of course nobody is fighting over corn but there is no shortage of fairly obvious parallels.

I come from a rural environment. Sometimes it was literally about corn. But yeah, most often it was about mechanical stuff.

Re: Russia sends troops to Kazakhstan to put down deadly uprising

#260

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #88
CommanderData wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading and watching about these places on YouTube (BaldAndBankrupt) and recently numerous videos about Pakistan, Afghanistan, India. I can't help but feel modern Western society has lost and forgotten something within. It's hard to describe but easier described as nearest to changes in warmth and compassion. It's only getting worse and these old places it seems ingrained.

It's never been that peaceful in the world. The thing that has changed is media reports from all over the world.

>It's never been that peaceful in the world.

The presence of peace, or the absence of war is indeed a big plus, but doesn't mean automatic happiness for everyone.

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