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Darling – Run Mac apps on Linux

darlinghq.org

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Re: Darling – Run Mac apps on Linux

#31

Post by lelanthran »

mkdirp wrote: post #14

Lots of questions around GUI apps. As someone pointed out, GUI apps have been "almost" working for years. Darling looks great but it hasn't gotten near as much love as Wine has gotten. I've been keeping an eye on it, and will continue to keep an eye it, and I've noticed the development is very slow. At the rate it's going, it'll be years before it'll be a viable solution like Wine is. I hope visibility for it will in…

> I'm sure people used to say "it'll be years before it'll be a viable solution" when Wine was in its infancy.

I don't think so. Wine was viable for me, playing Starcraft Brood Wars in 2000.

Other than games, in 2000 it was running a significant number of minor applications for me.

Re: Darling – Run Mac apps on Linux

#32

Post by code_biologist »

txdv wrote: post #23
freedomben wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Having Linux run iOS, macOS, Android, and Windows applications running would be nothing less than mind-boggling, and would finally get people to stop yelling that nothing runs on Linux Nothing will stop those people from yelling that, because it hasn't been true in a very long time and that doesn't stop them. These are the same people who say they don't want to run Linux because they don't want to compile their sou…

Been playing a lot of steam games with proton, it is mind bogling how valve expanded from support for linux for the source engine to support 70% of the games.

70% of games big asterisk

The giant youtube channel Linus Tech Tips has done a recent series of videos on gaming on linux. On Jan 1 they published a 15 min summary video that covers that 70% claim in a much more nuanced way: https://youtu.be/Rlg4K16ujFw

Punchline: it's kinda true, but there's plenty of struggle for new and multiplayer games still.

Re: Darling – Run Mac apps on Linux

#34

Post by jorvi »

Osiris wrote: post #26
freedomben wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Having Linux run iOS, macOS, Android, and Windows applications running would be nothing less than mind-boggling, and would finally get people to stop yelling that nothing runs on Linux Nothing will stop those people from yelling that, because it hasn't been true in a very long time and that doesn't stop them. These are the same people who say they don't want to run Linux because they don't want to compile their sou…

To get my bluetooth adapter to work I had to find a third-party driver, compile it, and manually setup DKMS so it'll update whenever a new kernel gets installed. That's a much more complicated process that either macOS or Windows.

For macOS to use a USB Ethernet adapter I had to hunt down some obscure driver, and after a certain macOS update it kept putting it in a folder on the desktop after each update despite it working if I just reinstalled it.

I absolutely used to love macOS and thought that they must have the cleanest nicest code in the world because they have such a well-developed UI+UX, but in the end, the core code below it has the same wrinkles as any software project. They’re just paved over. Plus, Apple loves to let stuff fail silently.

Re: Darling – Run Mac apps on Linux

#35

Post by freedomben »

Osiris wrote: post #26
freedomben wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Having Linux run iOS, macOS, Android, and Windows applications running would be nothing less than mind-boggling, and would finally get people to stop yelling that nothing runs on Linux Nothing will stop those people from yelling that, because it hasn't been true in a very long time and that doesn't stop them. These are the same people who say they don't want to run Linux because they don't want to compile their sou…

To get my bluetooth adapter to work I had to find a third-party driver, compile it, and manually setup DKMS so it'll update whenever a new kernel gets installed. That's a much more complicated process that either macOS or Windows.

I don't doubt that happened to you, but I've had almost a dozen bluetooth devices and I've only had one not work OOTB. I'm using OnePlus Buds Pro with my linux laptop right now and it paired flawlessly.

Generally speaking, bluetooth is a complicated and proprietary mess though and many (especially cheaper vendors) don't bother testing at all. I'm actually amazed that bluetooth works as well as it does on linux. Taking a few minutes before a hardware purchase to check compatibility is a really good idea.

Re: Darling – Run Mac apps on Linux

#36

Post by aspaceman »

freedomben wrote: post #20
mkdirp wrote: post #14

Lots of questions around GUI apps. As someone pointed out, GUI apps have been "almost" working for years. Darling looks great but it hasn't gotten near as much love as Wine has gotten. I've been keeping an eye on it, and will continue to keep an eye it, and I've noticed the development is very slow. At the rate it's going, it'll be years before it'll be a viable solution like Wine is. I hope visibility for it will in…

> Having Linux run iOS, macOS, Android, and Windows applications running would be nothing less than mind-boggling, and would finally get people to stop yelling that nothing runs on Linux Nothing will stop those people from yelling that, because it hasn't been true in a very long time and that doesn't stop them. These are the same people who say they don't want to run Linux because they don't want to compile their sou…

> They are already way outside of rational territory and deep into religious territory. In their minds Linux hasn't changed a bit since 1999, even though if you were to compare mac os from that time period against modern linux, they would become enraged at the unfairness and injustice.

I agree that this is part of it. But I also just see plain antagonism against Linux because people recommend it. Just pure contrarianism.

But a lot of the recommendations for Proton are also "memey". It's a bad fit if you need Anti-Cheat or proper injection protection. And that's just the nature of the beast. A proper Anti-Cheat _shouldn't_ approve of the injection necessary to get Proton working

So I do have to keep a Windows installation myself. But Proton represents a really cool technical milestone. Weird the way people talk about tech in games.

Re: Darling – Run Mac apps on Linux

#37

Post by bww »

lelanthran wrote: post #31
mkdirp wrote: post #14

Lots of questions around GUI apps. As someone pointed out, GUI apps have been "almost" working for years. Darling looks great but it hasn't gotten near as much love as Wine has gotten. I've been keeping an eye on it, and will continue to keep an eye it, and I've noticed the development is very slow. At the rate it's going, it'll be years before it'll be a viable solution like Wine is. I hope visibility for it will in…

> I'm sure people used to say "it'll be years before it'll be a viable solution" when Wine was in its infancy. I don't think so. Wine was viable for me, playing Starcraft Brood Wars in 2000. Other than games, in 2000 it was running a significant number of minor applications for me.

Wine was originally released in 1993. You're talking about a period 7 years into it's development.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine_(software)

Re: Darling – Run Mac apps on Linux

#38

Post by saagarjha »

SmileyKeith wrote: post #27
yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For unit tests, can you "just" build on Linux natively? I'm pretty sure Swift and Objective C are supposed to both work on Linux, although I assume library/API surface limits that.

This does generally work, but it requires a lot of manual effort to setup the environment correctly with Xcode's SDKs to satisfy the compiler / linker.

Plus, I’ve found that most iOS codebases, tend to rely on parts of Foundation and the Objective-C runtime that are not implemented on Linux, even if the code doesn’t touch UIKit at all.

Re: Darling – Run Mac apps on Linux

#39

Post by hn8788 »

code_biologist wrote: post #32
txdv wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Been playing a lot of steam games with proton, it is mind bogling how valve expanded from support for linux for the source engine to support 70% of the games.

70% of games big asterisk The giant youtube channel Linus Tech Tips has done a recent series of videos on gaming on linux. On Jan 1 they published a 15 min summary video that covers that 70% claim in a much more nuanced way: https://youtu.be/Rlg4K16ujFw Punchline: it's kinda true, but there's plenty of struggle for new and multiplayer games still.

There are even bigger caveats to that number than what they mentioned in the video. Since all the ratings are based on user reports, there is no standard for what is considered a working game. You can look through pretty much any game and find positive reports that mention frequent crashes, performance issues, missing textures, requires a custom proton version, etc., but since it launches, they gave it a thumbs up. I've tried platinum rated games that are completely unplayable, ProtonDB ratings are a general guide at best.

ProtonDB also considers a game as "working" if even a single person gave it a thumbs up, so the big "17,984 games work" on the home page is very misleading.

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