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Motorists have been stranded on a major interstate in Virginia since last night

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Re: Motorists have been stranded on a major interstate in Virginia since last night

#711

Post by JPKab »

dont__panic wrote: post #359
JPKab wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live just south of Superior outside of Denver. I lived in DC area for 10 years. For 6 of those years, I commuted on the bus to metro to work. The DC metro deteriorated markedly, and has continued to. A lot of it is a combination of bad initial designs (lack of surplus tunnel capacity to ease maintenance) along with the aggressive, powerful, and corrupt WMATA employees union. (I was on a project to analyze WMATA's s…

Hope you're OK after the Marshall Fire -- "just south of Superior" sounds like a very, very good choice compared to "in Superior" these days. Do you use public transit in the Denver area at all? I find myself biking to most places because the public transit routes don't really get me where I want to go, but a lot of folks I know in the area used to use the buses and light rail in the before times. Seems like it had a…

Yep, it was spooky. Between my house and the fire was nothing but an open expanse of tall grass prairie and route 128. Had a clear view of the fires, especially at night. We were under pre-evac orders in case the wind shifted. I had a few former colleagues who lost homes. I'm grateful that the loss of life was as low as it was.

Regarding public transit in Denver, I avoid it like the plague. If I'm by myself, I'm a lot more tolerant of it. But I can't take my kids to public places in downtown Denver anymore, including the transit. When my daughter was 4, I had her on my shoulders on Mother's Day while we walked the 16th Street Mall. As we approached the Capitol, a violent altercation occurred within 30 feet of between two chronic drug addicts. One of them had a hiking pole, and he started beating and stabbing the other one. My daughter was terrified. That's just one incident, there are far more like it.

It blows my mind how the current crop of homeless (unhoused, or whatever moronically Orweillian term has been created to signal pious, virtuous sensitivity to ingroup members) activists have pushed the utterly failed policies of San Francisco in other cities. They result is what you and I are complaining about: public spaces that are decidedly unwelcoming and unsafe to children, elderly, and women. The policies seem to do nothing but funnel money to the non-profits that employ the nutbag activists. They certainly don't accomplish anything else. It's the equivalent of the neighborhood cat lady who puts bowls of food out for strays claiming she's a wildlife rehabilitation specialist.

Re: Motorists have been stranded on a major interstate in Virginia since last night

#713

Post by asdff »

IdoRA wrote: post #403
asdff wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would divert them to some surface streets like 15, 1, 301, 66. You'd ensure they not use 95 by putting up a sign on the onramp that says road closed and you'd leave it unplowed while you focused your efforts on keeping other routes clear. Many trucks would probably just lay up at a gas station.

Are you familiar with the area? I’ve been here since ‘89. Those streets cannot handle the volume of traffic we’re talking about. There aren’t enough gas stations for the truck volume we’re talking about either.

There simply wouldn't be the normal volume of traffic on the roads if that interstate was closed. People would call off work and not drive to schools. The local roads will do fine with the remainder of people who absolutely cannot get off work during a blizzard, probably emergency workers. Plenty of major interstates that see huge volumes of traffic endure closures and the local community just responds accordingly.

Re: Motorists have been stranded on a major interstate in Virginia since last night

#714

Post by torstenvl »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #707
torstenvl wrote: post #701

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This idea doesn't get enough application. It gets far too much application. We literally put down a rebellion and rewrote the Constitution over this. It didn't work before and it won't work now.

On the contrary, it's worked well in the past and it's also working right now. What's the problem supposed to be?

There has never been a time in all of human history where cities cordoned themselves off politically from the rural areas they rely on that did not end in rebellion, bloodshed, and/or collapse.

If you want rural America to rise up in rebellion again, I mean, I guess go for it. But there's a specific reason the vast majority of state capitals are in comparatively rural areas: to prevent exactly the kind of division you're advocating for. This was a hard-won lesson in the aftermath of Shay's Rebellion.

Re: Motorists have been stranded on a major interstate in Virginia since last night

#715

Post by R0b0t1 »

imgabe wrote: post #561
R0b0t1 wrote: post #550

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have the people considered moving?

They already live in the US. They shouldn't have to move anywhere to exercise their rights as US citizens.

They're already able to exercise their rights. As they don't live in a state they don't get to vote in state elections.

The land was set aside for federal use, living in it and then complaining you don't live in a state seems insane.

Re: Motorists have been stranded on a major interstate in Virginia since last night

#716

Post by dragonwriter »

R0b0t1 wrote: post #715
imgabe wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They already live in the US. They shouldn't have to move anywhere to exercise their rights as US citizens.

They're already able to exercise their rights. As they don't live in a state they don't get to vote in state elections. The land was set aside for federal use, living in it and then complaining you don't live in a state seems insane.

> The land was set aside for federal use, living in it and then complaining you don't live in a state seems insane.

Kind of like complaining about not getting a vote on taxes imposed on you when you choose to live in North American colonies rather than Britain proper. Whiners.

Also note that US citizens who live overseas can vote in state elections for federal office under federal law (and in most states can also do so for local/state offices under state law.) Inside the US but not within the boundaries of a state is the only place US citizens are systematically disenfranchised by geography.

Re: Motorists have been stranded on a major interstate in Virginia since last night

#717

Post by tptacek »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #589
mardifoufs wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The USA's model of just "build that office complex wherever you want!" wouldn't work. Which is exactly my point! That's already the current situation on the ground in the USA. So yes, it wouldn't work there. Unless you'd literally move around millions of jobs, offices etc which is absolutely not feasible. Trying to build public transit around that structure just to fit an idealized vision of somewhere else is weird.…

My first comment mentioned urban planning. I that involves more than just planning the transit, you have to plan the work places and residential places as well. The USA is too enamored with personal and corporate liberty to let the government plan anything that would actually be effective beyond “let’s just build freeways everywhere and expect everyone to drive.”

You don't get to "plan" the work places and residential places. They are what they are. Your transit plan needs to serve the commercial and residential areas that already exist, not a hypothetical ideal. It isn't easy in Ireland, Germany, or Spain to reorganize an entire metro area by fiat, either.

Re: Motorists have been stranded on a major interstate in Virginia since last night

#718

Post by 0xBDB »

unethical_ban wrote: post #598
josephcsible wrote: post #539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of the Senate and Electoral College is that states are supposed to have quite a bit of sovereignty, and so more populous states shouldn't be able to run roughshod over less populous ones. Your suggestions completely miss that point.

No, I didn't miss the point. I disagree with it entirely. The EC and the Senate function nothing like they were designed in the 18th century when the goal you mention seemed to matter. The filibuster and the 17th amendment and two centuries of societal advancement have something to say about the "state sovereignty" argument for the Senate. The fact that the Electoral college allowed the previous President to take off…

This debate is pretty academic though. Article V is clear that the composition (or existence) of the Senate can't be changed even by amendment without the unanimous consent of the states. Arguably, even a new constitution couldn't (legally) do it.

Of all the things we might possibly ever do to improve the function of government, that alone is not one.

Re: Motorists have been stranded on a major interstate in Virginia since last night

#719

Post by thaumasiotes »

torstenvl wrote: post #714
thaumasiotes wrote: post #707

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary, it's worked well in the past and it's also working right now. What's the problem supposed to be?

There has never been a time in all of human history where cities cordoned themselves off politically from the rural areas they rely on that did not end in rebellion, bloodshed, and/or collapse. If you want rural America to rise up in rebellion again, I mean, I guess go for it. But there's a specific reason the vast majority of state capitals are in comparatively rural areas: to prevent exactly the kind of division yo…

> There has never been a time in all of human history where cities cordoned themselves off politically from the rural areas they rely on that did not end in rebellion, bloodshed, and/or collapse.

I guess you could call this true, but only in the sense that there has never been any system of any kind that didn't end in rebellion, bloodshed, and/or collapse.

The normal pattern historically is that the city's hinterlands are subject to the city's rule. You never see the hinterlands ruling the city.

Re: Motorists have been stranded on a major interstate in Virginia since last night

#720

Post by asiachick »

tallanvor wrote: post #634
asiachick wrote: post #551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japan, often considered to have some of the best public transportation in the world, privatized their "public" transportation in the 1970s. They seem to have setup the incentives so for the most part it works. Train companies own land/real-estate around each station. They open grocery stores, shopping centers, office buildings, hotels at many of their own stations. This seems to lead to a virtuous cycle. It's in thei…

Tokyo Metro is the second largest system in Tokyo by passenger count, and it's jointly owned by the national government and the Tokyo government. Toei is the 4th largest in Tokyo, and it's fully owned by the Tokyo government, and there are others outside of Tokyo that are also publicly owned. So I'd say that while private train companies has partially worked, they certainly haven't been able to rely on private compan…

You can frame this many ways.

#1 it's second, not first.

#2 there are at least 10 different train/subway companies in Tokyo so it's 1 of 10 (JR, Eiden, Toei, Tokyu, Keisei, Keikyu, Keio, Odakyu, Tobu, Seibu)

#3 the government gets to pick the best spots via eminent domain

#4 lots of conflict of interest when government, via #3, decides who gets what

#5 It's not just Tokyo. Other big Japanese cities also have multiple train companies. Kyoto has at least 4 (JR West, Hankyu, Keihan, Keifuku), I'm sure Osaka has several too (haven't spent as much time there so not as familar)

#6 The fact that the gov trains exist does not in any way suggest that they couldn't rely on private companies completely, especially given the 9 other companies doing just fine

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