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TSMC’s Arizona Culture Clash

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Re: TSMC’s Arizona Culture Clash

#191

Post by analognoise »

chrisjc wrote: post #117
analognoise wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because we're all done with that "grind culture" bullshit, 100%, and we're finally calling it out for what it is.

Who's "we're"? There will always be those willing to embrace the "grind culture". Whether it's new grads eager for experience, those that have experienced life without opportunity and "freedom" or just those desperate to make ends meet.

See? It's out in the open now.

Hustle culture exploits the young, the economically disadvantaged, and the desperate. It's basically poison, and there are enough people finally saying the quiet part out loud.

I guess "we" is whoever doesn't believe in exploiting the young, economically disadvantaged, or desperate. I guess some people love exploiting vulnerable groups though, you're right. I just assumed nobody would want to be associated with that kinda toxicity.

Re: TSMC’s Arizona Culture Clash

#192

Post by j_walter »

JaimeThompson wrote: post #123
j_walter wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They cornered the market...they literally have a monopoly and it's impossible to compete against at this point. AMAT is also impossible to compete against despite how shitty they are because they just buy competitors and make them shitty to. If you have seen how TSMC works on the inside you would understand the culture and the drive to succeed. They don't care about political correctness, they could care less about h…

"They hired a former Intel HR director for the AZ plant and the first thing he asked was about their diversity program" Do you have a source for that?

I've spoken directly with the person he said that to.

Re: TSMC’s Arizona Culture Clash

#193

Post by csours »

jason-phillips wrote: post #126
bob1029 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many moons ago I used to work inside a samsung fab. At no point was I ever feeling a sense of outrage regarding having a literal 80s-style pager strapped to my body 24/7/365. A big part of why this didnt bother me was the scale/impact of what I was doing - I was responsible for the primary business interface used across the entire factory floor. Once you see a modern fab with your own eyes, it will change you in a de…

> Once you see a modern fab with your own eyes, it will change you in a deep way. Nothing you see in media can prepare you for the real thing. While working for Samsung Austin Semiconductor in 2013, I needed to travel to Korea for a month as part of our work on a global supply chain software project. IIRC, we were working at the semiconductor complex at Giehung. The fabs there are unbelievably enormous, much bigger t…

This all reminds me of the short story "They're Made out of Meat"

https://www.mit.edu/people/dpolicar/writing/prose/text/think...

Re: TSMC’s Arizona Culture Clash

#194

Post by j_walter »

chrisjc wrote: post #117
analognoise wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because we're all done with that "grind culture" bullshit, 100%, and we're finally calling it out for what it is.

Who's "we're"? There will always be those willing to embrace the "grind culture". Whether it's new grads eager for experience, those that have experienced life without opportunity and "freedom" or just those desperate to make ends meet.

Exactly this...there are always those willing to work their ass off to succeed. Those who are willing to do so get rewarded...but finding out who those people are takes time and generally that's not something you can see on a resume. The engineer in this story may not fit the bill...

Re: TSMC’s Arizona Culture Clash

#195

Post by gilbetron »

CivBase wrote: post #178
Veen wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One factor you are missing in that analysis: TSMC is very profitable—about $5 billion per quarter. Better working conditions don't have to mean more expensive products; it could instead mean reduced profits. https://focustaiwan.tw/business/202110140010

Where do those profits go? Presumably TSMC doesn't just sit on it. Surely they either invest it back into their business to stay competitive or deal it out as compensation.

Well, according to their last quarterly report, they currently have around 28.4 billion US dollars in cash. So there's a big chunk :)

Re: TSMC’s Arizona Culture Clash

#196

Post by j_walter »

emodendroket wrote: post #45
j_walter wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They cornered the market...they literally have a monopoly and it's impossible to compete against at this point. AMAT is also impossible to compete against despite how shitty they are because they just buy competitors and make them shitty to. If you have seen how TSMC works on the inside you would understand the culture and the drive to succeed. They don't care about political correctness, they could care less about h…

I doubt Samsung has much of a diversity operation in Korea either. I am rather incredulous that those positions (which, frankly, do not actually have that much influence on the running of the business day-to-day) make that much of a difference to the success of one company or another.

You would be surprised how much impact a poorly directed HR department can have...not just on new hires but on senior people as well.

Re: TSMC’s Arizona Culture Clash

#198

Post by wheels »

phkahler wrote: post #175
neonihil wrote: post #137

It’s like: People: We want stuff cheaply, immediately and in immense volume! Production: Moves to Asia People: We want jobs! Production: Opens a new factory in the USA People: We don’t want to work that much! Production: increases pay, which increases product cost People: this is too expensive. Can we buy from overseas cheaply instead? Production: Closes USA factory, moves back to Asia. People: we want jobs…

>> It’s like: That's cute, but not what actually happened. It started with: Company: We want more profit Production: Moved to Asia Other Companies: We can't compete any more Other Production: Moved to Asia Companies: Oh crap, we need production back in the US (for various reasons) Production: Oh shit that's right, we moved because it cost less with no labor or environmental protections and we could work the shit out…

> [...] we moved because it cost less with no labor or environmental protections and we could work the shit out of people.

TSMC was never in North America, it was always a Taiwanese company. It's literally an Asian company moving production to the US.

Taiwan isn't some rando poor Asian country; it's a rich democracy. The work culture is no doubt different (as it is, say, in Japan or South Korea), but to pretend that it has no labor or environmental laws is somewhere between racist and naive.

Re: TSMC’s Arizona Culture Clash

#199

Post by sitkack »

breezeTrowel wrote: post #185
phkahler wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> It’s like: That's cute, but not what actually happened. It started with: Company: We want more profit Production: Moved to Asia Other Companies: We can't compete any more Other Production: Moved to Asia Companies: Oh crap, we need production back in the US (for various reasons) Production: Oh shit that's right, we moved because it cost less with no labor or environmental protections and we could work the shit out…

Going by the article, it seems a large part of the "culture clash" is TSMC's insistence on three hours of meetings each day and using outdated software that was designed back in 1987(!). While workers in Taiwan used to work 12 hour days, time worked is not a good indicator of productivity and I'm willing to bet that TSMC's massive profitability meant there wasn't much incentive to make the work process more efficient…

Any company that runs down worker resources by running them out of spec is not sustainable and indicative of a lack of mature management. You wouldn't run your physical machinery outside of its operating area, so don't do it to your workforce. Automate. Fabs are the knife edge of technology, literally building the components that go into all other forms of automation, yet they are reliant on primate and medieval era organizational structures and processes?

Re: TSMC’s Arizona Culture Clash

#200

Post by CivBase »

gilbetron wrote: post #195
CivBase wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do those profits go? Presumably TSMC doesn't just sit on it. Surely they either invest it back into their business to stay competitive or deal it out as compensation.

Well, according to their last quarterly report, they currently have around 28.4 billion US dollars in cash. So there's a big chunk :)

To put that into scale, here's some quotes from TSMC's Wikipedia article[0]:

> In November 2020 officials in Phoenix, Arizona in the United States approved TSMC's plan to build a $12 billion chip plant in the city. [...] In 2021, news reports claimed that the facility may be tripled to roughly a $35 billion investment with six factories.

> In November 2021, TSMC and Sony announced that TSMC would be establishing a new subsidiary named Japan Advanced Semiconductor Manufacturing (JASM) in Kumamoto, Japan. [...]. The initial investment will be approximately $7 billion with Sony investing approximately $500 million for a less than 20% stake.

When you're committing to $42B of investments, $28.4B doesn't seem like all that much to have on hand.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TSMC

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