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TSMC’s Arizona Culture Clash

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Re: TSMC’s Arizona Culture Clash

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am hearing that employers in the US are no longer able to negotiate the low pay per hours of work, often at undesirable times of the day and week and year, that they used to be able to demand. The type of work described in the article has a reputation of low pay per hour and being undesirable. > TSMC will have to change to an eight-hour work day five days a week.” Is this US society breaking down and American peopl…

This is what happens when the US tries to compete with Asia on manufacturing in a free market. These are people who want that job to exist, but are unwilling to work for the pay and conditions necessary for that job to exist.

TSMC knew all of this and came here anyways...

Re: TSMC’s Arizona Culture Clash

#163
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compliant means showing up on time and working per the agreed upon terms. Compliant does not mean accepting piss poor pay and poor work life balance.

exactly...compliant is a two way street.

Compliance assumes there is an underlying agreement or need to comply.

Characterizing TSMC not being able to find sufficient people to accept their working conditions/pay as "US workers not being compliant" is a meaningless use of the word compliant in this context.

Re: TSMC’s Arizona Culture Clash

#164
post #148

It’s like: People: We want stuff cheaply, immediately and in immense volume! Production: Moves to Asia People: We want jobs! Production: Opens a new factory in the USA People: We don’t want to work that much! Production: increases pay, which increases product cost People: this is too expensive. Can we buy from overseas cheaply instead? Production: Closes USA factory, moves back to Asia. People: we want jobs…

One factor you are missing in that analysis: TSMC is very profitable—about $5 billion per quarter. Better working conditions don't have to mean more expensive products; it could instead mean reduced profits. https://focustaiwan.tw/business/202110140010

[deleted]

Re: TSMC’s Arizona Culture Clash

#165
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One factor you are missing in that analysis: TSMC is very profitable—about $5 billion per quarter. Better working conditions don't have to mean more expensive products; it could instead mean reduced profits. https://focustaiwan.tw/business/202110140010

does that profit take into account the cost of building new fabs?

That’s cash flow.

Profit has all sorts of accounting aspects such as depreciation (which, for a massive chip plant must be enormous).

Re: TSMC’s Arizona Culture Clash

#166
post #82

None of this makes sense. 1. Long shifts are normal for fab operators in the U.S., eg Intel. 2. Certain engineers are always on call if an emergency happens, also true at Intel. 3. Samsung, not exactly the “live slow and enjoy life” type of culture as an employer operates fabs just fine in the U.S.

Work culuture is very different in the many countries and are in line with the gernal culture. Based in Europe, Germany, we had this when we had meetings with chipmanufacturers in Japan vs. USA. So when a company comes from one culture into another another it always has a learning curve. Even when you employ local people helping you to adopt to the local culture. Because you have still managers in the other cultur wi…

> I assume the experience at first is horrible for the Asian managers.

When I worked at Samsung, there was virtually always friction between the Korean and American stakeholders. It was something we learned to tolerate though and eventually these differences did bring a lot of combined value.

The general theme was something like - Korea uses American talent to shake up processes and innovate in ways they would be difficult to approach on cultural grounds. For instance, directly challenging an incorrect idea from your manager's manager. This would be a standard Monday morning activity for any native Texan/American working at SAS. It may initially cause an uproar (why didn't you notify xyz first... etc.), but it always got the ball rolling on a quick resolution and left an implicit obligation to review why certain management chain links were skipped over in the first place.

On the other hand, Korea brought a degree of consistency/discipline in their process engineering that staggered many of us. Virtually everyone balked at this stuff initially, but we grew to understand the value over time.

The language barrier was the hardest thing from the American perspective. I feel like many of us would have had an easier time if all of the documentation wasn't originally developed in Korean. Automatic translation tech was not able to help back in the day, so your next best bet was to find a Korean who worked in your office area to help you out. Needless to say, ad-hoc human translation services were hard to come by, especially if one didn't want to feel abusive about it.

Re: TSMC’s Arizona Culture Clash

#167

It’s like: People: We want stuff cheaply, immediately and in immense volume! Production: Moves to Asia People: We want jobs! Production: Opens a new factory in the USA People: We don’t want to work that much! Production: increases pay, which increases product cost People: this is too expensive. Can we buy from overseas cheaply instead? Production: Closes USA factory, moves back to Asia. People: we want jobs…

Govt: import taxes starting in 3, 2 . . .

Re: TSMC’s Arizona Culture Clash

#168
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One factor you are missing in that analysis: TSMC is very profitable—about $5 billion per quarter. Better working conditions don't have to mean more expensive products; it could instead mean reduced profits. https://focustaiwan.tw/business/202110140010

does that profit take into account the cost of building new fabs?

yes it does, TSMC has immense profits, and their profits are growing 30% YoY

Re: TSMC’s Arizona Culture Clash

#170

It’s like: People: We want stuff cheaply, immediately and in immense volume! Production: Moves to Asia People: We want jobs! Production: Opens a new factory in the USA People: We don’t want to work that much! Production: increases pay, which increases product cost People: this is too expensive. Can we buy from overseas cheaply instead? Production: Closes USA factory, moves back to Asia. People: we want jobs…

People want to have their cake and eat it too.

No you can reasonably have high wages, decent profits, and high output. Big tech in the US already does that exceptionally well. There's no reason TSMC can't do it, other than they don't want to sacrifice some profit.

TSMC is upset because of the lack of enough slave labor in Arizona.

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