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Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

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Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#171
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every customization option means more complaints from some customer who managed to mess up that setting. “My search no longer works!” “Sir you have the search registry key set to ‘turkey bake time’” “Well that’s what I was searching for, and then the search stopped working completely. iPhones are the worst, I’m gonna tell all my friends”

I’m sure Apple’s world-renowned UX team can innovate a way to allow new search engines to be added w/o bricking your phone. I’d rather have that than lack if real, capital-laden competition in search.

I’m not sure they can: adding “one more feature” here and there quickly overrides anything a UX team can do to prevent 10s of thousands of confused complaints and returned phones.

For example, my family member is a smart woman and I used to teach professionally. I haven’t yet found a way to teach her what a web browser is and isn’t.

This is relevant to the things she wants to get done (e.g. shortcuts don’t run in webview, gmail’s native app doesn’t support recipient groups but the web app does, etc)

After warmup, examples, Socratic questioning, task assignments, checking understanding and testing (with detailed feedback), it seems she approximately learns what a web browser is and when she is and isn’t in one, but then she doesn’t really understand it a couple days later.

She’s otherwise as clever and capable as everybody else or rather more clever.

At Apple’s scale, every added feature to a web browser adds thousands of clever people quitting in confusion.

That’s why they hide things like search engine selection under menus an average user will never see, even if accidentally pressing 37 not-quite-randomly wrong things during a session.

We here have the curse of expertise.

The best Apple UX can do for the majority of the population is say no to features more often than yes, and to hide deep under the hood any setting that persists after the device is restarted and could lead to confused angry consumers that can’t figure out what to do and don’t have nearby family members to solve it before they quit.

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#172
post #17

”The complaint claims that the means used to effectuate the non-compete agreement included; (1) Google would share it's search profits with Apple; (2) Apple would give preferential treatment to Google for all Apple devices; (3) regular secret meetings between the executives of both companies; (4) annual multi-billion-dollar payments by Google to Apple not to compete in the search business; (5) suppression of the comp…

The issue is not that Apple should be required to do anything, but that the monopoly (Google) is paying other companies to stay out of their business.

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#173
post #90
post #17

”The complaint claims that the means used to effectuate the non-compete agreement included; (1) Google would share it's search profits with Apple; (2) Apple would give preferential treatment to Google for all Apple devices; (3) regular secret meetings between the executives of both companies; (4) annual multi-billion-dollar payments by Google to Apple not to compete in the search business; (5) suppression of the comp…

They're not required to enter the search market. But, the revenue Apple get from the deal/trust with Google is better than MSFT or Yahoo ever got by competing with them. It's also easy, risk free and pure profit. So, the deal essentially ensures that Apple will not compete. Apple now also have an interest in maintaining their (alleged) trust. It's now in both parties interest to maintain Google's dominance of the spa…

Note that Apple does have an actual search engine, the ‘Siri suggested sites’ section of iOS results and sometimes within safari itself.

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#174
post #83

The whole structure of antitrust regulation is, by negligence or design, weird and weak. #1 Why does there need to be a plaintiff? A trust affects consumers and society broadly detrimentally, not some specific competitor. The competitor google is likely trying to suppress is some theoretical startup anyway, they probably don't exist to sue. #2 Why the focus on specific damages? The specific harm of such a trust are i…

Because so far, no-one (within the US legal system) has come up with a formulation for "monopoly" and "market" that does not have (a) unpleasant side effects for businesses that would normally not be considered monopolists (b) a system that is easily gamed by businesses that are trying to monopolise a market.

Not saying it can't be done, just that it seems to be fairly hard.

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#175

Why is the plaintiff, California Crane School, suing Apple and Google? As far as I see, the plaintiff is not in the tech business, as they're a school that teaches how to operate cranes[1] [1] https://www.californiacraneschool.com/

They use Google Ads: I Googled "crane schools in california" and one of the results was an ad for California Crane School. Apparently they think that they are paying too much on those ads: "The complaint alleges that advertising rates are higher than rates would be in a competitive system".

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#176
post #17

”The complaint claims that the means used to effectuate the non-compete agreement included; (1) Google would share it's search profits with Apple; (2) Apple would give preferential treatment to Google for all Apple devices; (3) regular secret meetings between the executives of both companies; (4) annual multi-billion-dollar payments by Google to Apple not to compete in the search business; (5) suppression of the comp…

Apple is not obliged to enter the search market. But Google can't engage in illegal anti-competitive conduct.

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The number is higher in the US and lower in the rest of the world. But iPhones are more heavily skewed to US users. I picked $200 as a good ballpark.

True, and iPhones are also more common in wealthier people. Worked on a Project once where our target audience was medical doctors in Germany, and we had >50% iOS users on based our user-agent metrics.

Curious how you accurately got that figure knowing how draconic Germans are on protecting their privacy, I highly doubt they're cool with knowing that as doctors they're being tracked for some app targeting.

But yeah, anecdotally, just from visiting their practices, I also noticed most doctors in Austria tend to be in the Apple ecosystem for private use, but their practices and the clinics tend to be Windows.

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why you get downvotes, this is true, at least for iOS. There's no way a user can add a new search engine, they can only choose one of the five choices.

I'm so happy that Apple keeps me safe of dangerous search engines. /s I don't get this logic, honestly. What is the point of not being able to add any and all search engines to Apple?

> I'm so happy that Apple keeps me safe of dangerous search engines. /s

You joke, but I still have PTSD from the IE7 days. https://www.linux-noob.com/forums/uploads/post-12-1098049148...

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#179

I don't think this is even worthy of being reported on. There is a high likelihood of this being thrown out in summary judgement. You can't claim something without at least some facts that indicates that Apple was going to build a search engine and the payments made by Google made Apple stop development. My guess is this is more of a PR stunt than a real lawsuit.

I agree that these headlines are worthless if no evidence is presented in the article.

Having said that - they have not yet presented evidence in court, so they may indeed have evidence.

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#180
post #53
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

#5 is the key point to my mind. For example, you can’t just add new search engines to iOS Safari with just a URL. There are a few alternatives to Google but there’s no easy way for a new entrant to get in there. EDIT: Interesting. I’m picking up downvotes for this, is there some way to achieve this (other than jailbreaking) I’ve missed?

I can't believe I've never considered this. They really should have a "custom" option in there as well. Is it possible to do using .mobileconfig profiles maybe? (Off topic: Is there a specification somewhere on what's possible using .mobileconfig profiles?)

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/OpenSearch
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