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Motorists have been stranded on a major interstate in Virginia since last night

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Re: Motorists have been stranded on a major interstate in Virginia since last night

#551

Post by asiachick »

GlenTheMachine wrote: post #396

There are a lot of comments here about why public transit in the DC area doesn't work, but nobody that I've seen has put their finger on it. The biggest issue is that the area covers two states, at least ten counties depending on what you count as the “DC area”, plus the District of Columbia, which isn't a state, doesn't have control over its own budget, and has no representation in Congress. Oh, and in Virginia citi…

Japan, often considered to have some of the best public transportation in the world, privatized their "public" transportation in the 1970s. They seem to have setup the incentives so for the most part it works.

Train companies own land/real-estate around each station. They open grocery stores, shopping centers, office buildings, hotels at many of their own stations. This seems to lead to a virtuous cycle. It's in their best interest to get people to use their trains.

Further, there's at least some competition as there are often 2-4 paths to get from one place to another. For example, you can go from Shibuya to Yokohama either by JR East or by Tokyu (different companies). You can go from Tokyo to Yokohama either via JR East or by Keikyu (again, different companies). You can go from Osaka to Kyoto either by JR West or by Hankyu. You can get from Ogikubo to Shinjuku either by Eiden or JR East. You can get to Haneda airport by Tokyo Monorail, or Keikyu. You can get to Narita by JR or by Keisei and for both of those there's a regular, and an express.

I'm sure it's not perfect but it's arguably better than many public transportation systems where the politicians underfund things and have hardly any incentive to make each station as useful and nice as possible.

The point is, there are other solutions than DC area has to have government run the transportation and all the problems come with that, at least in the USA.

Of course you have to get the incentives right. Get them wrong and it will probably be just as bad.

Re: Motorists have been stranded on a major interstate in Virginia since last night

#552

Post by dnautics »

imgabe wrote: post #473
GlenTheMachine wrote: post #396

There are a lot of comments here about why public transit in the DC area doesn't work, but nobody that I've seen has put their finger on it. The biggest issue is that the area covers two states, at least ten counties depending on what you count as the “DC area”, plus the District of Columbia, which isn't a state, doesn't have control over its own budget, and has no representation in Congress. Oh, and in Virginia citi…

I lived in the DC area for 20 years (1999-2019) and commuted daily on the Metro for many of those years. The things you say are true, but they were also true 15-20 years ago when the Metro was leaps and bounds better than it is today. They were true in the 1970s when the Metro was first built. So it can't be the whole story. There's much more to it. It's not just that the Metro is bad, it's that it keeps getting wors…

> DC needs to be a state.

Alternatively, give back all of the residential parts back to Maryland (like Arlington was given back to VA). For a long time this wasn't politically feasible because DC was rough and MD would not have wanted it, but by now the tax base has to be high enough for it to be a net positive for MD. Of course, the democrats will lose 3 "safe" electoral votes but you could amend the constitution to give them over to Maryland and then take the extra three away over the course of 30 years, or something.

Re: Motorists have been stranded on a major interstate in Virginia since last night

#553

Post by bobsil1 »

bobsil1 wrote: post #512
stjohnswarts wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DC shouldn't be a state, it would give that "state" too much power and also make politicians there outsized politically powerful and we have enough of that already with states like rhode island, wyoming, and the dakotas

DC residents should get one-person-one-vote, like most things. We should get rid of 1700s planter superuser backdoors like the disproportional Senate and electoral college.

Then we should rebrand away from the slaver-drafted constitution to the Free States of America, a fourth founding after the original, post-Civil War and Civil Rights Movement. That would match what we actually have, a multiethnic democracy welcoming global talent.

Giving residents of Wyoming 70× the Senate voting power of any Californian is a joke.

Re: Motorists have been stranded on a major interstate in Virginia since last night

#554

Post by megablast »

whatshisface wrote: post #51
azylman wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No comments on emergency situations, but wanted to call out one thing: > You need additional highways (aka: additional offramps) to truly scale day-to-day traffic Additional highways are at-best a stop-gap for day-to-day traffic, never a solution, due to induced demand [1]. You really need large-scale investments in public transportation for this. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand#Effect_in_trans...

I've never understood how inducing demand doesn't count as success. That means people want to use the road, doesn't it? It's almost like saying that releasing new software doesn't do anything to help users, because it increases the demand for software by the virtue of its own utility more than it reduces the demand for software by keeping people busy.

It is. If you work for an oil company. Or love pollution. Or hate the planet. Getting more people driving is awesome!!

Re: Motorists have been stranded on a major interstate in Virginia since last night

#555

Post by MathCodeLove »

Bud wrote: post #544
MathCodeLove wrote: post #540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everything is racially motivated. Eventually speculation like yours crosses a boundary from legitimate social concern to conspiracy and seeing racist boogeymen in every shadow.

"Eventually"? Yeah, except when it doesn't. You're right: not everything is racially motivated. Except for the things that so plainly and obviously are. Also: please do not implicitly label my concern as being not legitimate. I'm not really that into clumsy gaslighting.

I think you're legitimately concerned, but I think your concerns are about as well grounded in reality as that of most conspiracy theorists. What proof (not tweets or opinion pieces) do you have to support your claim? "There are a lot of black people therefore any adverse action to the region is because of racism" is not proof. California's demographic makeup isn't predominantly white. Why are they a state?

Re: Motorists have been stranded on a major interstate in Virginia since last night

#556

Post by teakettle42 »

cco wrote: post #548
teakettle42 wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some will burst or leak, and they leach an unpleasant plastic taste into the water — especially in hot weather.

I change them out at the end of each year and use them to water plants. I'm very sure I'll not mind the plastic taste in an emergency situation :)

The datrex drinking water is rated for 5 years, and it tastes the same — like distilled water — 1 or 5 years in. It's nice to actually be want to drink it in a non-emergency situation if you just need some water.

Re: Motorists have been stranded on a major interstate in Virginia since last night

#557

Post by onecommentman »

GlenTheMachine wrote: post #405
QuarterReptile wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This may be an explanation for why the metro isn't better in DC, but not the source of the area's problems. Outside the city, most of the area is set up below the intensity of viable urban fabric and is entirely focused on cars. In that system, transit is just an attempt to set up satellite traffic jams where people then spend extra time commuting afterward. You can't have successful transit while favoring cars. And…

That's because in order for public transit to work it has to cover the place the people work. Which is mostly in DC. Virginia isn't going to pay for public transit in DC. Maryland isn't going to pay for public transit in DC. Whereas what they will absolutely do is pay for roads in their own states. And DC can’t pay for public transit in DC because it’s tax base isn’t big enough. It isn't so much “favoring cars” as it…

DC Metro exists because ~70% of the capital costs were borne by the rest of the US, most of said citizens never saw, or will never see, any direct benefit. It was an easy sell to the Feds as individual people who directly and personally benefited in hedonistic ways and who, unsurprisingly, secured funding.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Metro#History

But the Metro also was politically inevitable, given the position of DC as the political center of the very powerful 20th Century USA. It was a semiotic embarrassment not to have a prestigious functioning subway system in DC in the late 20th Century. Urban Europeans would stick their tongues out and make fun of the DC residents, and the Feds fixed that with the Metro. (Note that DC types still have a lingering inferiority complex with other European cities. The rest of the US, excepting maybe NYC and Boston, couldn’t have cared less.)

But the Metro does makes it easier to see the sights if/when the rest of the US visits DC as tourists.

Re: Motorists have been stranded on a major interstate in Virginia since last night

#558

Post by isatty »

emptybottle wrote: post #73

A good reminder to keep some warm blankets/coats/gloves/hats in your trunk, along with some non-perishable snacks and a first-aid kit & flashlight. Water is harder to store in the winter since it will freeze and burst containers if full, but snow can be melted given a container to put it in. Also a good to refuel often. I try treat 1/2 a tank as empty and stop accordingly. On longer trips it lines up well with bathro…

Also: flashlight and a tarp.

Re: Motorists have been stranded on a major interstate in Virginia since last night

#559

Post by dnautics »

Bud wrote: post #536
stjohnswarts wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DC shouldn't be a state, it would give that "state" too much power and also make politicians there outsized politically powerful and we have enough of that already with states like rhode island, wyoming, and the dakotas

Quoted post unavailable.

It would be the only state with no agricultural interests, the only state with no ports, the only state where the majority of the residents work for the federal government... The last one alone is pretty scary and a bit of a conflict of interest.

Re: Motorists have been stranded on a major interstate in Virginia since last night

#560

Post by imgabe »

dnautics wrote: post #552
imgabe wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived in the DC area for 20 years (1999-2019) and commuted daily on the Metro for many of those years. The things you say are true, but they were also true 15-20 years ago when the Metro was leaps and bounds better than it is today. They were true in the 1970s when the Metro was first built. So it can't be the whole story. There's much more to it. It's not just that the Metro is bad, it's that it keeps getting wors…

> DC needs to be a state. Alternatively, give back all of the residential parts back to Maryland (like Arlington was given back to VA). For a long time this wasn't politically feasible because DC was rough and MD would not have wanted it, but by now the tax base has to be high enough for it to be a net positive for MD. Of course, the democrats will lose 3 "safe" electoral votes but you could amend the constitution to…

MD doesn't want that and neither does DC. DC is not Maryland. It's its own place with its own identity.
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