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Real Problems That Web3 Solves, Part 1

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Re: Real Problems That Web3 Solves, Part 1

#261

Post by readams »

Sargos wrote: post #259
readams wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it doesn't solve that at all since there's no way to tie something on the block chain to the real world. All the same problems of knowing whether some particular PGP key belongs to the person you want apply the same to a wallet address.

I probably should have worded it differently to avoid that connotation. There are a lot of identity protocols but that's not what I was focusing on. On HN I am Sargos. You know this because I am replying to you and only I can do that with this account. I can also tell you that I'm @JamesCarnley on Twitter but there's no way for you to verify that. If I were using my public key to log into HN and Twitter you would kno…

And none of that has anything to do with blockchain.

Re: Real Problems That Web3 Solves, Part 1

#262

Post by biztos »

accountofme wrote: post #248
Sargos wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think you necessarily need blockchain. Can't you just prove that you are who you say by signing something and sending it to the service? It's important to remember that blockchains are just public-key cryptography where you have a private key that can sign things and, importantly, everyone knows everyone else's verified public keys. That's it. It solves the key distribution and verification problem that PGP…

How does everyone know everyone's verified public keys? How are they verified? Who does the verification? How do you trust the verifiers? How do you know that person x in the real world has pubkey x?

1. They can (theoretically) examine the whole ledger.

2. Your possession of the private key “verifies” your public key, if someone takes it they are now you.

3. Depends on the consensus mechanism but in the best case, “everyone” and in the worst case “coinbase.”

4. You don’t trust them, the system is supposed to be trustworthy with untrustworthy participants, and when that’s not true you will just have to trust the architects of the hard fork.

5. Magical off-chain oracle!

Re: Real Problems That Web3 Solves, Part 1

#263

Post by Sargos »

readams wrote: post #261
Sargos wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I probably should have worded it differently to avoid that connotation. There are a lot of identity protocols but that's not what I was focusing on. On HN I am Sargos. You know this because I am replying to you and only I can do that with this account. I can also tell you that I'm @JamesCarnley on Twitter but there's no way for you to verify that. If I were using my public key to log into HN and Twitter you would kno…

And none of that has anything to do with blockchain.

It feels like you're trying really hard to not get web3 any credit here. Try making something like this in the traditional web. People have tried and failed.

Ethereum provides a robust, secure, and increasingly usable key storage and usage system to everyone which makes "just signing a message" a simple task and not a 10 step process probably involving a CLI. It's worth considering the utility of this and the possibilities everyone having a person public/private key pair allows. My fellow software developers among us likely have their mouths watering at the use cases this unlocks. Here's a pretty good thread about the implications: https://twitter.com/BrantlyMillegan/status/13892701158840975...

Re: Real Problems That Web3 Solves, Part 1

#264

Post by otherfiftycents »

thebean11 wrote: post #146
endisneigh wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you don't really make any sense. sorry. I already addressed your points. the government point is not really relevant. the point is that a web admin has recourse with Google and/or government depending on the nature of the activity. good luck

I just don't see how "ask Google / the government to tell me the identities of its customers" could be seen as a positive of the current system for 99% of cases. Especially given that Google likely won't even have the information, especially for an account created to commit serious crimes warranting NSA snooping or legal intervention. Just like creating a private key, you don't need a SSN or a passport to create a Go…

> I feel like you are intentionally ignoring the dangers of SSO tied to a company that can unilaterally delete your account, and has little incentive to unlock it or even let you plead your case.

I feel like you are intentionally ignoring the dangers of crossing a road where there is a higher probability of dying than a FAANGM deleting your account.

Re: Real Problems That Web3 Solves, Part 1

#265

Post by dathinab »

MBCook wrote: post #173
spinny wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's questionable that more than one maybe two blockchains will be supported You don't really need a blockchain unless you need to keep data on a blockchain. To login and identify a user you can simply sign a message. I consider the address as the user "identity". Any blockchain data related to that address is mean to be public (some people register .eth on the ENS for example)

If you don’t need a blockchain what makes this web3? I thought that was supposed to be the defining feature. If it’s just cryptographically signing things we’ve had that ability since PGP came out.

And we had "independent" SSO schemes based on it, non of which gained widespread adoption (in the "independent" form).

The reason is the UX/UI flow, complexity for integrating them and users which already have it.

So if all people have a wallet at some point which they also can use for SSO that might get adoption.

Through for investment into crypto, instead of "daily using it" you probably don't want a hot walled on your phone.

So as long as "daily/frequent/casual crypto usage" doesn't become a supper common thing for large parts of the society (in the "western" world) it's hard for it to gain wide spread adoption I think.

Re: Real Problems That Web3 Solves, Part 1

#266

Post by lmm »

threeseed wrote: post #239
lmm wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OAuth helps but it still forces you to rely on a single central provider as your "root". So it's not a complete solution.

> still forces you to rely on a single central provider as your "root" So what ? I am still struggling to understand what immediate and painful need users have with trusting Apple, Facebook, Google etc with their identity. If people had some issue with this then users would simply not use OAuth and default to creating an account for each service they use.

> I am still struggling to understand what immediate and painful need users have with trusting Apple, Facebook, Google etc with their identity.

It's not so immediate until you get banned, but they've all been gradually stepping up their politicised banwaves. And there's always the concern about what happens when one of them goes the way of Yahoo.

> If people had some issue with this then users would simply not use OAuth and default to creating an account for each service they use.

Which has huge practical headaches, to the point that OAuth being the least-bad option doesn't say a lot.

Re: Real Problems That Web3 Solves, Part 1

#267

Post by post_from_work »

threeseed wrote: post #239
lmm wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OAuth helps but it still forces you to rely on a single central provider as your "root". So it's not a complete solution.

> still forces you to rely on a single central provider as your "root" So what ? I am still struggling to understand what immediate and painful need users have with trusting Apple, Facebook, Google etc with their identity. If people had some issue with this then users would simply not use OAuth and default to creating an account for each service they use.

>>> I am still struggling to understand what immediate and painful need users have with trusting Apple, Facebook, Google etc with their identity.

Using your Google account to log into everything is great....until your account gets locked.

https://www.pcmag.com/news/not-even-google-employees-can-unl...

Re: Real Problems That Web3 Solves, Part 1

#268

Post by riddleronroof »

codehalo wrote: post #210
riddleronroof wrote: post #56

Not to be that HN poster, But wouldn’t pgp key browser plug-in do just as well?

What recourse would you have if you lose your private key? The author mentions a solution to that problem.

Same as Argent. Elect 4 trusted people, if they all ok it’s really you, the custodian (a company that stores your private keys, like LastPass), releases it to you.

Re: Real Problems That Web3 Solves, Part 1

#269

Post by post_from_work »

Mezzie wrote: post #240
kristofferR wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is kind of funny to read, since in Norway basically every interaction with the government (paying taxes, filing for divorce, accessing our health records etc.) is done through an oauth2 system, the same one we use to log in to our bank accounts/get loans through. Most people haven't interacted with the government via paper in years. https://docs.digdir.no/idporten_overordnet.html https://www.altinn.no/hjelp/innl…

America's federalism would make this idea a mess here: Each state has their own system for everything and 50%+ of the lower-level governments/agencies (county or municipal level) don't have any digital footprint at all, even a website. For example, there are plenty of elections across the country whose official results can't be accessed online at all. You have to call in, go in person, or request mail/fax. There's ba…

>>>America's federalism would make this idea a mess here: Each state has their own system for everything and 50%+ of the lower-level governments/agencies (county or municipal level) don't have any digital footprint at all, even a website.

Additional example: I need to pay property taxes on my mother's house in New Jersey. I'm physically on the other side of the planet. While the town has a website, it's pretty much just a phone directory. I have to call them every 3 months, usually when it's 2-3am in my timezone, ask them what the property taxes are assuming I pay them by {$date}, and then mail them checks. I can't even do something as simple as enter the property lot number in a search field on their site, have it look up the outstanding taxes, and then just pay with a VISA card.

The Federal government SHOULD be able to force certain things in the name of "regulating interstate commerce". I would think that data standards and APIs would have efficiencies at scale that would reduce friction in inter-state transactions.

Re: Real Problems That Web3 Solves, Part 1

#270

Post by rank0 »

Sargos wrote: post #263
readams wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And none of that has anything to do with blockchain.

It feels like you're trying really hard to not get web3 any credit here. Try making something like this in the traditional web. People have tried and failed. Ethereum provides a robust, secure, and increasingly usable key storage and usage system to everyone which makes "just signing a message" a simple task and not a 10 step process probably involving a CLI. It's worth considering the utility of this and the possibi…

I haven’t heard a convincing argument for why only ethereum can get users to use key pairs.

You can improve the UX of key management tools without a global network of redundant computers.

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