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Motorists have been stranded on a major interstate in Virginia since last night

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Re: Motorists have been stranded on a major interstate in Virginia since last night

#511
post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived in the DC area for 20 years (1999-2019) and commuted daily on the Metro for many of those years. The things you say are true, but they were also true 15-20 years ago when the Metro was leaps and bounds better than it is today. They were true in the 1970s when the Metro was first built. So it can't be the whole story. There's much more to it. It's not just that the Metro is bad, it's that it keeps getting wors…

> Whatever problem there was with the automatic braking system, they decided to just give up on it instead of fixing it. It's minor, but it slows things down. This is just not true. Partial control was restored years ago [0], and my understanding is they still want this capability on other lines. But WMATA has probably been busy addressing numerous other NTSB complaints that impact the ability to provide basic servic…

One of my friends in DC was just complaining the other day about how the conductor wasn't able to manually stop the train properly and caused a delay (that led to a missed connection).

Clearly it's still not back 100%, even 12 years later. I mean, if they cared about fixing it, they'd fix it by now. Any halfway competent system should be able to figure out something like that after more than a decade.

Re: Motorists have been stranded on a major interstate in Virginia since last night

#512
post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived in the DC area for 20 years (1999-2019) and commuted daily on the Metro for many of those years. The things you say are true, but they were also true 15-20 years ago when the Metro was leaps and bounds better than it is today. They were true in the 1970s when the Metro was first built. So it can't be the whole story. There's much more to it. It's not just that the Metro is bad, it's that it keeps getting wors…

DC shouldn't be a state, it would give that "state" too much power and also make politicians there outsized politically powerful and we have enough of that already with states like rhode island, wyoming, and the dakotas

DC residents should get one-person-one-vote, like most things. We should get rid of 1700s planter superuser backdoors like the disproportional Senate and electoral college.

Re: Motorists have been stranded on a major interstate in Virginia since last night

#513
post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Whatever problem there was with the automatic braking system, they decided to just give up on it instead of fixing it. It's minor, but it slows things down. This is just not true. Partial control was restored years ago [0], and my understanding is they still want this capability on other lines. But WMATA has probably been busy addressing numerous other NTSB complaints that impact the ability to provide basic servic…

One of my friends in DC was just complaining the other day about how the conductor wasn't able to manually stop the train properly and caused a delay (that led to a missed connection). Clearly it's still not back 100%, even 12 years later. I mean, if they cared about fixing it, they'd fix it by now. Any halfway competent system should be able to figure out something like that after more than a decade.

Follow the (lack of) money.

Re: Motorists have been stranded on a major interstate in Virginia since last night

#514
post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived in the DC area for 20 years (1999-2019) and commuted daily on the Metro for many of those years. The things you say are true, but they were also true 15-20 years ago when the Metro was leaps and bounds better than it is today. They were true in the 1970s when the Metro was first built. So it can't be the whole story. There's much more to it. It's not just that the Metro is bad, it's that it keeps getting wors…

DC shouldn't be a state, it would give that "state" too much power and also make politicians there outsized politically powerful and we have enough of that already with states like rhode island, wyoming, and the dakotas

That's not how this works. We create a government and decide what rights citizens have. We did that, wrote a whole constitution about it. Then we make sure every citizen has those rights.

If there are imbalances in the design of the government, that's a separate problem that we fix on its own. Depriving some subset of citizens of their rights is not the answer.

Re: Motorists have been stranded on a major interstate in Virginia since last night

#515
post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like DC needs to be made a state.

A better option would be to cede most of the residential and commercial areas of DC to surrounding states. Just keep a few blocks containing the key federal government buildings, parks, monuments, and museums.

another option might be to move out all the federal offices etc that have been centralized in DC and share it across all states?

DC would have the absolutely essential Federal jobs

Today, with secure communications, we should be able to achieve it?

Re: Motorists have been stranded on a major interstate in Virginia since last night

#516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because in order for public transit to work it has to cover the place the people work. Which is mostly in DC. Virginia isn't going to pay for public transit in DC. Maryland isn't going to pay for public transit in DC. Whereas what they will absolutely do is pay for roads in their own states. And DC can’t pay for public transit in DC because it’s tax base isn’t big enough. It isn't so much “favoring cars” as it…

> Virginia isn't going to pay for public transit in DC. Maryland isn't going to pay for public transit in DC. Virginia and Maryland both pay significant funds to subsidize the DC metro system, as does the federal government. Incompetence at WMATA fritters away the money. Moreover, metro has little to do with this road disaster anyway as Metro isn’t going to run between DC and Richmond. Amtrak does that and it’s alrea…

The kind of money for public transit that would alleviate congestion on I95 (the proximate cause of yesterdays nightmare) has never ever been on the table. It would never get through Richmond or Annapolis.

Re: Motorists have been stranded on a major interstate in Virginia since last night

#517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because in order for public transit to work it has to cover the place the people work. Which is mostly in DC. Virginia isn't going to pay for public transit in DC. Maryland isn't going to pay for public transit in DC. Whereas what they will absolutely do is pay for roads in their own states. And DC can’t pay for public transit in DC because it’s tax base isn’t big enough. It isn't so much “favoring cars” as it…

> Virginia isn't going to pay for public transit in DC. Maryland isn't going to pay for public transit in DC. Virginia and Maryland both pay significant funds to subsidize the DC metro system, as does the federal government. Incompetence at WMATA fritters away the money. Moreover, metro has little to do with this road disaster anyway as Metro isn’t going to run between DC and Richmond. Amtrak does that and it’s alrea…

> Incompetence at WMATA fritters away the money.

There is incompetence everywhere. Why is it any worse at WMATA than Maryland State Highway Administration or literally anywhere else?

Re: Motorists have been stranded on a major interstate in Virginia since last night

#518
Lots of comments here about public transit or whatnot in the DC area. Virginia is about the same size as maybe Hungary or Czech Republic and about 60% bigger than Ireland. The area being discussed here is not in the DC area but about 50 miles/80km south of there between D.C. and the State capital Richmond. The nearest area to this disaster is Fredericksburg which is a small historic town and an exurb from D.C. around 50 miles/80 km away from D.C. and about 60 miles from Richmond.

It truly is in the middle of nowhere with most turnoffs going to farming/rural areas. In European terms it's similar to the stretch on the A4/A6 between Vienna and Bratislava, but about 2x as long and about half as populated. If you drive here you basically see nothing but highway and trees for a couple of hours, with the occasional turn-off into a stand of fast food restaurants and gas stations and really nothing else until you get nearer to Richmond or head a bit east towards Hampton Roads.

The local towns simply don't have the support infrastructure to clear the roads and wrecks and the state. This combined with a drop in temperature from over 60F to under 30F (15C to -0C) in a few hours and a massive snow drop caused the early falling snow to melt, then freeze into a solid layer of ice before road crews could salt the entire 110 mile stretch between DC and Richmond.

Predictably the result was a giant mess, and few areas for motorists to exit onto local roads to get around the affected area or get food, gas, or other provisions. There aren't even many hotels as options in the area given how rural much of this part of the state is. Google maps has simply marked the entire 110 mile stretch of the Interstate as black and provides directions around the entire thing on local farm roads.

Directions from New York City to Miami Fl (which typically use mostly I-95) simply route around that part of I-95 from Baltimore, Md to just North of Richmond using local roads, a distance of 152 miles (244 km) or about 3 hours driving, and includes crossing bridges over the Potomac River in incredibly more rural areas.

Another way to look at it is that D.C. is the southern-most tip of the heavily populated D.C. to Boston megalopolis mega-region and any further South is basically farms and wilderness until Richmond, the next distinct and different metro area from the North-East mega region. This problem has occurred in the gap between those two areas.

Re: Motorists have been stranded on a major interstate in Virginia since last night

#519

There are a lot of comments here about why public transit in the DC area doesn't work, but nobody that I've seen has put their finger on it. The biggest issue is that the area covers two states, at least ten counties depending on what you count as the “DC area”, plus the District of Columbia, which isn't a state, doesn't have control over its own budget, and has no representation in Congress. Oh, and in Virginia citi…

The question people need to ask are that the government spends the entire net worth of Apple x3 a year. Where does it go? The US rebuilt Iraq, rebuilt Afghanistan, etc. it’s corruption. That said, the issue in this case isn’t any of that. It’s that we didn’t have enough snow plows in those areas for what ever reason. I’ve taken the dc metro. It’s easy to do, works great. Don’t really get the complaints. Sure it could…

> I’ve taken the dc metro. It’s easy to do, works great. Don’t really get the complaints.

The metro is great for tourists. If you're relying on it to get to work every day it's a different story.

Re: Motorists have been stranded on a major interstate in Virginia since last night

#520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was an article[1] posted here a while back which changed my perspective on this issue. Indeed, there's nothing wrong with induced demand on its own. In any other market, more demand induced by lower costs (whether those costs be monetary or in the form of commute times) would almost certainly be a good thing . The only reason it's a potential issue for roads is that road use is an externality. Building and main…

> Indeed, there's nothing wrong with induced demand on its own. In any other market, more demand induced by lower costs (whether those costs be monetary or in the form of commute times) would almost certainly be a good thing. The "purpose" of expanding lanes and building alterntae highways is to improve efficiency. For people living in a given area, reduce their time spent commuting. There is large economic cost to h…

There is a large human cost to having large portions of your population commuting too much, also. I always think it's weird that we tend to justify policy only in terms of its economic (or health) impacts when it is something that people just want for their quality of life.
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