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No Way to Grow Up

nytimes.com

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Re: No Way to Grow Up

#431

Post by ilteris »

quadrifoliate wrote: post #414
ilteris wrote: post #367

I don't give a shit what the article says or specifically points to but I can tell you this much. I am a dad of a 6 year old. My kid goes to public school in NYC and last year was bad... They did a test at the beginning of this year before the start of the first grade and her results were awful. This is an unprecedented event and everyone is clueless including in education. I don't make a big deal about the test resu…

American society depends on personal responsibility in the aspects of healthcare, retirement, and employment. Your child's education is usually an honorable exception to this in that it's totally government run and borderline volunteer-run, but funding for that is not adequate to the point where you can reasonably expect it to continue as usual in the midst of a global pandemic. The sooner you can come to terms with…

Agreed, we should all come to terms with this and work towards is the point of my small rant as well. Thank you for clarifying.

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#432

Post by djrogers »

asdff wrote: post #218
Jensson wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The evidence from kids who get sick enough to miss a lot of school is that at worst it takes three years for them to be indistinguishable from those with uninterrupted school attendance. Is this really true if the entire class missed a few years? It is very different having one kid who missed a lot and then later interacts with kids who all didn't miss a lot, and a class where every kid is behind a couple of years.

It's not like every kid is falling behind though. Plus you only need to look at history, and probably within your own family to find a few examples, of generations of children who are educated throughout hard truths and stressful times like war or famine and go on to be alright. Zoom and a mask isn't ideal, but a lot less stressful in comparison to something that could easily have given you significant PTSD.

> It's not like every kid is falling behind though.

Yes, in many places it really is. Look at what test results have been released - there is a tiny cohort of kids that managed to remain close to the normal level of achievement, and generally in areas where parents are heavily involved in schooling their kids.

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#433

Post by geoduck14 »

empressplay wrote: post #219
halostatue wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Highly unlikely. My wife taught children who came out of Sarajevo in the mid-90s and many of them have gone on to excel in life. Children are resilient. What is _hurting_ them is not the school closures, but the panic and uncertainty that some people have put around this.

That panic and uncertainty is hurting all of us.

>uncertainty is hurting all of us

Simply by observing those around me, I have learned SO much about humans.

We hate uncertainty. I hate it. I remember worrying myself into a frenzy looking at all of these tables predicting exposure and risk. "If we go to the grocery store, we can't see X friend... but if YOU go to the store and spend less than 15 minutes getting peanut butter and bread..." it was a mess.

I also learned that humans are bad at responding to highly unlikely events. All throughout this pandemic, I remind myself that people are making emotional decisions not logical - and they are doing that because we all are really bad at making logical decisions. And then I remind myself to show them love and grace.

What can I do to make your experience a little less frantic? Even if only for 1 minute.

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#434

Post by KittenInABox »

djrogers wrote: post #429
honkycat wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could you argue we have gone "hard left" exactly? What is an event or piece of legislation that has been passed?

Some would say that spending $6 trillion in Ill leave the judgement to you, but it’s pretty obvious that things are not the same today as they were 3 years ago.

I mean why are we counting 2 years when the "left-leaning" party wasn't even in power 1 year ago?

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#435

Post by refurb »

honkycat wrote: post #399

And what is going to happen? Pass a bill to provide additional support to schools? Hell, Anything? No. Nothing is ever done. Nothing ever happens except decay. The United States is spinning down its governmental duties. The pendulum will swing right again, and that will be the death blow. They will continue to gut public and infrastructure programs. All 3 branches will finally truly be a jobs program for the upper cl…

This is an impressive rant and makes sense if you ignore the fact that more and more money is being sucked up by the government that seems to be providing less and less in return.

I mean San Francisco has a $1.1B budget for homelessness. That's a contribution of almost $1,300 for every man, woman and child resident of SF. And yet the problem is worse, not better.

Maybe it's not a money problem but the approach that's the issue.

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#436

Post by honkycat »

djrogers wrote: post #429
honkycat wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could you argue we have gone "hard left" exactly? What is an event or piece of legislation that has been passed?

Some would say that spending $6 trillion in Ill leave the judgement to you, but it’s pretty obvious that things are not the same today as they were 3 years ago.

Please show receipts here. You mean the infrastructure bill? That is only 1 trillion?

What do you think is going to happen if we stop maintaining our infrastructure?

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#437

Post by ctyc »

op00to wrote: post #379
sanedigital wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have your groups backwards. Those of us who homeschool (or whose children attend small, alternative private schools) understand fully that it takes a village. That's why we went to great pains to keep that village active, pandemic or no pandemic. Our specific community has accepted the additional risk to us adults in order to keep some level of normalcy for our children. This article is about the other kids. The…

- The kindergartners who haven't seen a teacher's face in 24 months What is that even supposed to mean? - The grade schoolers forced to eat outside in the cold. This is not harmful, but is also not universal. I have not seen that personally. Hell, in Nordic countries people leave their infants outside in freezing temperatures to nap. - The high schoolers who unofficially "dropped out" when their schools closed and wi…

For a child (and arguably everyone honestly) a face on a screen !== seeing someone in real life. It’s not even comparable.

Lots of people cared (and continue to care) about the high school drop out rate. I would be such a person.

College dropouts on the other hand…

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#438

Post by happyopossum »

secondaryacct wrote: post #336
ajmurmann wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"For the past two years, large parts of American society have decided harming children was an unavoidable side effect of Covid-19." This sentence also implied that there had been consensus about what the trade-off is which I don't think everyone would agree with. I definitely know some parents who are afraid if their children returning to badly ventilated classrooms

And what harms a child more, in a rational compromising world: part of the family dead or losing revenue due to hard sickness, or staying away from school for a while? This writer may not have children, im terrified to leave my toddler behind, am I selfish? What is this fake dichotomy...

If you’ve got kids in grade school, you’re likely in your 30s. And if you’re afraid, you’re likely vaccinated.

Do yourself a favor and look up the mortality rate for vaccinated people in their 30s. It’s exceedingly low.

You are likely damaging your kid because of an irrational fear.

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#439

Post by throwawaygh »

quadrifoliate wrote: post #414
ilteris wrote: post #367

I don't give a shit what the article says or specifically points to but I can tell you this much. I am a dad of a 6 year old. My kid goes to public school in NYC and last year was bad... They did a test at the beginning of this year before the start of the first grade and her results were awful. This is an unprecedented event and everyone is clueless including in education. I don't make a big deal about the test resu…

American society depends on personal responsibility in the aspects of healthcare, retirement, and employment. Your child's education is usually an honorable exception to this in that it's totally government run and borderline volunteer-run, but funding for that is not adequate to the point where you can reasonably expect it to continue as usual in the midst of a global pandemic. The sooner you can come to terms with…

> personal responsibility in the aspects of healthcare

Pre-retirement: I don't take any personal responsibility for healthcare. It’s not an option. My employer provides me with a menu of more-or-less completely standardized options. Those options even specify how often I should go to general checks-ups and strictly police my access to specialists. I have very little power to control my own consumption of healthcare, aside from the things that almost all countries delegate to individuals: attending my regular check-ups and avoiding the obvious vices. At least in Germany I could get access to a specialist without first finding a doctor who is expert at interacting with automated processes at some actuarial firm. The biggest choice I can ever make is “do I take on a bit more risk so that I can stow away money pre-tax in an HSA”.

Post-retirement: Medicare.

> retirement

All Americans pay into SS and a huge portion of retirees do/will depend mostly on SS income to be able to retire.

Even without SS, one in five Americans have a pension. The rest (who can afford to save for retirement) probably have a 401(K) with a small menu of target date funds. There are some tricks you can play on the side, sure, but they’re marginal. The rest is post-tax savings; again, afforded to most individuals in most (all) western societies.

> employment

I’m not sure how this is different from places like Europe or even China/Russia.

In fact, the US is a bit of an outlier to the other extreme. As best I can tell, the US Department of Defense is undeniably the world’s largest social jobs program.

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#440

Post by honkycat »

refurb wrote: post #435
honkycat wrote: post #399

And what is going to happen? Pass a bill to provide additional support to schools? Hell, Anything? No. Nothing is ever done. Nothing ever happens except decay. The United States is spinning down its governmental duties. The pendulum will swing right again, and that will be the death blow. They will continue to gut public and infrastructure programs. All 3 branches will finally truly be a jobs program for the upper cl…

This is an impressive rant and makes sense if you ignore the fact that more and more money is being sucked up by the government that seems to be providing less and less in return. I mean San Francisco has a $1.1B budget for homelessness. That's a contribution of almost $1,300 for every man, woman and child resident of SF. And yet the problem is worse, not better. Maybe it's not a money problem but the approach that's…

The mistake you are making is that you think I consider our current administration and democratic leaders remotely competent or aligning with my values.

They do not. I agree they are useless on purpose. That is my point.

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