Motorists have been stranded on a major interstate in Virginia since last night • Hacker News Board

Re: Motorists have been stranded on a major interstate in Virginia since last night

#481

Post by benf76 » Wed, Jan 05, 2022, 2:30 AM UTC

jimmytidey wrote: post #372

whatshisface wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never understood how inducing demand doesn't count as success. That means people want to use the road, doesn't it? It's almost like saying that releasing new software doesn't do anything to help users, because it increases the demand for software by the virtue of its own utility more than it reduces the demand for software by keeping people busy.

Fascinating that this has generated so many answers, from so many different perspectives. Induced demand is a terrible name for the real issue here. Perhaps the "one more lane fallacy" would be better. The "one more lane fallacy" is not universal, it only applies in cities and other densely populated areas. Imagine you are sitting in a suburban traffic jam, getting slowly more and more annoyed. It's easy to imagine a…

So why bother build any roads larger than one lane?

Re: Motorists have been stranded on a major interstate in Virginia since last night

#482

Post by nradov » Wed, Jan 05, 2022, 2:30 AM UTC

tmnvix wrote: post #478

GlenTheMachine wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because in order for public transit to work it has to cover the place the people work. Which is mostly in DC. Virginia isn't going to pay for public transit in DC. Maryland isn't going to pay for public transit in DC. Whereas what they will absolutely do is pay for roads in their own states. And DC can’t pay for public transit in DC because it’s tax base isn’t big enough. It isn't so much “favoring cars” as it…

> And DC can’t pay for public transit in DC because it’s tax base isn’t big enough. How does DC pay for roads?

Congress allocates funds for roads and other infrastructure in DC.

Re: Motorists have been stranded on a major interstate in Virginia since last night

#483

Post by pengaru » Wed, Jan 05, 2022, 2:31 AM UTC

_muff1nman_ wrote: post #477

pengaru wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's qualified with unless you're genuinely isolated and there's no reasonably accessible shelter away from traffic. i.e. If you're stuck on the shoulder of a snowy/icy highway and there's a walking distance Motel 6 visible, go straight to the hotel and make your phone calls there. A road is a terrible place to camp, your occupancy has zero influence on the probability of the vehicle getting hit, though it may feel l…

This is still really bad advice. There was a recent instance not a year ago where folks were stuck with 3 feet of snow at night on an interstate interchange. Yes there was a hotel not a mile from where they were but getting out of your car to cross the interstate in 3 feet of snow is a great way to get hit or get lost in the blizzard and get some good hypothermia. Compare this to staying in their car where they were…

For every anecdote you can provide of someone being careless on foot I can find multiple instances of a stopped vehicle being smashed into on a highway.

Now we even have the pleasure of anticipating Tesla Autopilot to plow into us while stopped on the shoulder, apparently made even more likely if there's an emergency vehicle present.

Re: Motorists have been stranded on a major interstate in Virginia since last night

#484

Post by nradov » Wed, Jan 05, 2022, 2:35 AM UTC

seventytwo wrote: post #411

GlenTheMachine wrote: post #396

There are a lot of comments here about why public transit in the DC area doesn't work, but nobody that I've seen has put their finger on it. The biggest issue is that the area covers two states, at least ten counties depending on what you count as the “DC area”, plus the District of Columbia, which isn't a state, doesn't have control over its own budget, and has no representation in Congress. Oh, and in Virginia citi…

Sounds like DC needs to be made a state.

A better option would be to cede most of the residential and commercial areas of DC to surrounding states. Just keep a few blocks containing the key federal government buildings, parks, monuments, and museums.

Re: Motorists have been stranded on a major interstate in Virginia since last night

#485

Post by arein3 » Wed, Jan 05, 2022, 2:36 AM UTC

rurp wrote: post #362

emptybottle wrote: post #73

A good reminder to keep some warm blankets/coats/gloves/hats in your trunk, along with some non-perishable snacks and a first-aid kit & flashlight. Water is harder to store in the winter since it will freeze and burst containers if full, but snow can be melted given a container to put it in. Also a good to refuel often. I try treat 1/2 a tank as empty and stop accordingly. On longer trips it lines up well with bathro…

>Water is harder to store in the winter since it will freeze and burst containers if full Very true. I live in a hot climate and often freeze water bottles to take with me in the summer. A full sealed bottle, even a solid one like a Nalgene, will easily break when frozen. But I've found that leaving 10-15% of space empty and cracking the top ever so slightly prevents any sort of breaks. Leaving the bottle cracked ope…

Fill the bottle 75% and crush the plastic bottle a bit before fully sealing it.

Re: Motorists have been stranded on a major interstate in Virginia since last night

#486

Post by pseudo0 » Wed, Jan 05, 2022, 2:36 AM UTC

mschuster91 wrote: post #474

micromacrofoot wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

does the establishment of washington dc as an unrepresented area make sense today in 2022? it has over 700,000 residents and its own school system… since its inception it has struggled time and time again due to its awkward status… the people living there want it overwhelmingly!

> does the establishment of washington dc as an unrepresented area make sense today in 2022? Many things in the US political system don't make sense in 2022, especially from an European point of view - mining and water rights, inequality of rural and urban votes because of unproportional representation in the Senate, Presidential votes in "stronghold" states being effectively wasted thanks to the Electoral College, t…

> it was not anticipated that civilians would be able to own weapons of war)

That was in fact the entire point (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/246).

> (a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard. (b) The classes of the militia are— (1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and (2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

> The problem is, the US and the UK are the only countries in the Western sphere that haven't had a revolution and/or WW1/2 in the last century to re-set and modernize their constitution, power balance and judicial precedence - and that lack is really, really showing. It's no coincidence that the US and the UK are the Western countries hit the hardest by the rise of populist demagogues.

Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Switzerland, Sweden, and likely a few others I'm forgetting all seem to be doing fine.

Re: Motorists have been stranded on a major interstate in Virginia since last night

#487

Post by bagels » Wed, Jan 05, 2022, 2:36 AM UTC

perl4ever wrote: post #431

ddingus wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. We had a family incident a number of years back. Stuck on a mountain pass in the cold for the better part of a day. We've also seen a breakdown in the desert, and that one was a couple days. We always refuel before entering a risky part of travel. Never count on getting there. Make sure. And in a scenario like this that refuel could provide a days worth of heat, depending. No matter what, it's a lot more heat th…

>Rough metric is you get 1 hour of engine idle per gallon. Some cars do better than that. I have a non-plug in hybrid, that gets almost 50 mpg consistently; I've got to experiment and extrapolate to see if it's much better. I would like to believe so. I recently learned of the existence of: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_heater and wonder how efficient they are. These seem to be mostly outdated, but I guess t…

Can you even idle all hybrids? Doesn't the engine shutoff when stopped? Maybe it will turn on if the coolant temperature drops?

Re: Motorists have been stranded on a major interstate in Virginia since last night

#488

Post by snowwrestler » Wed, Jan 05, 2022, 2:37 AM UTC

SllX wrote: post #471

justapassenger wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not a reasonable argument for any position. Just because few hundred years ago something was designed differently isn’t a reason not to change it.

Well the parent proposed something perfectly reasonable: retrocession back into Maryland. This would wholly resolve their lack of Congressional representation and Maryland would gain a House seat, or maybe two if they were already on the threshold for another.

DC can’t force MD to take them back, and neither can the federal govt. And MD doesn’t want them. Reasonable or not, it’s a no-go.

Re: Motorists have been stranded on a major interstate in Virginia since last night

#489

Post by asoneth » Wed, Jan 05, 2022, 2:38 AM UTC

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #213

asoneth wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to be clear, the "induced demand" that concerns me is not the latent demand of a few deferred trips being taken in the days/weeks/months/year after the road is widened, it's the long-term generated demand of people choosing to move further into the suburbs because they can commute more miles in the same number of minutes. The cumulative result is that property values on the periphery of the commuting zone increa…

> Just to be clear, the "induced demand" that concerns me is not the latent demand of a few deferred trips being taken in the days/weeks/months/year after the road is widened, it's the long-term generated demand of people choosing to move further into the suburbs because they can commute more miles in the same number of minutes. The cumulative result is that property values on the periphery of the commuting zone incr…

> but the people who already live in the suburbs still get a 30 minute commute instead of a 60 minute commute because of the wider road

That is true for several years after the highway widening. Which is good for politicians who operate one election cycle at a time.

But the population doesn't just sit back and enjoy shorter commutes after a highway widening project. The towns that used to be two hours outside the city are now only an hour drive away and commuters looking for a deal start to move there. The towns that used to be an hour away are now only a half-hour drive to the city and are now hotter as well. Some of that is due to a game of musical chairs in which people expand out of the city to the suburbs, some of that is new residents choosing to live further out than they would have if they arrived before the highway widening. All of this increases the number of vehicle miles traveled. Eventually (over the span of decades) this results in a new equilibrium in which the highway is nearly as congested as it was before the widening and everyone is once again living at about the time-limit of how far they are willing to commute.

It's not all bad of course because the new highway helps grow the metro area and it increases property values, especially in the suburbs that were on the periphery of the commuting zones. But to permanently eliminate congestion you'd either have to keep widening the road every decade or two to handle the growth (Houston, Dallas), allow the congestion itself to act as a natural limit (NJ), or institute tolls/congestion pricing (Singapore, London).

Re: Motorists have been stranded on a major interstate in Virginia since last night

#490

Post by nradov » Wed, Jan 05, 2022, 2:40 AM UTC

mschuster91 wrote: post #474

micromacrofoot wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

does the establishment of washington dc as an unrepresented area make sense today in 2022? it has over 700,000 residents and its own school system… since its inception it has struggled time and time again due to its awkward status… the people living there want it overwhelmingly!

> does the establishment of washington dc as an unrepresented area make sense today in 2022? Many things in the US political system don't make sense in 2022, especially from an European point of view - mining and water rights, inequality of rural and urban votes because of unproportional representation in the Senate, Presidential votes in "stronghold" states being effectively wasted thanks to the Electoral College, t…

Back when the Constitution was written there were private citizens who owned weapons of war. Specifically they owned large artillery pieces that were used both on land and on sailing vessels.

The lack of a recent revolution in the US is a feature, not a bug. Our Constitution isn't perfect, but it can be amended and has been many times.