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No Way to Grow Up

nytimes.com

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Re: No Way to Grow Up

#211

Post by aidenn0 »

bsder wrote: post #49

Except that real solutions never seem to be on the table. For example, how about atomizing school into pods of smaller numbers of students with teachers scattered around the district instead of 30+ students per teacher with 1000+ students crammed into a building or campus? This would be especially effective for the youngest students. And a "Covid Outbreak" would shut down less than a dozen students and a teacher for…

I just want to know where the money is going to schools these days. Per-capita, inflation-adjusted public funding for schools in the US varies from flat to way up depending on which US state you choose over my lifetime.

Similarly the US spends the 4th most per capita, and about 1/3 more than the average of OECD countries.

I don't think money alone will fix this problem, judging by the number of quality teachers I know that leave for lower paying positions at private schools...

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#212

Post by divbzero »

Ergo19 wrote: post #187

While the whole world has experienced this pandemic, there is an incredible variety of pandemic experiences out there. Within the United States there are so many variables between states, counties, cities, school districts, and families. A common feature of COVID debate I have noticed is that it often seems like people are not even talking about the same thing. I live in a state that has had a fairly restrictive appr…

> But our fortunate circumstances made it so that I do not feel like it was particularly difficult for our children. As a result I have not reacted very strongly to local authorities continuing very cautious policies regarding masks and cohorting in schools.

This has been my experience too among families I know. If anything it has been more difficult on parents than it has been on children. That may be another source of reaction towards school polices.

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#213

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

jdminhbg wrote: post #202
btown wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article actually says it's 233% increase in chance of death for people younger than 65, which is even scarier: > For people younger than 65 who were hospitalized with COVID-19, the risk of death in the 12 months after the infection was 233% higher than it was for people who did not have the disease, results published in the journal Frontiers in Medicine have shown. https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fme…

This is comparing the risk of death for people who are hospitalized to the risk for their age group, which is missing the major confounding factor that those who are hospitalized for Covid (especially in younger cohorts) are very disproportionately sick (from diabetes, obesity, immune issues from transplants, etc).

There's no evidence that Covid infects diabetics (or other "unhealthy" people) at a higher rate. Hospitalizes them, sure.

The negative group should've had a correct proportion of "unhealthy" people.

Again - even if it is only increasing chance of death in "unhealthy" people... It's still increasing chance of death!

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#214

Post by soderfoo »

Early in the pandemic forewarnings were raised about the risks associated with school shutdowns. Drowned out by a cacophony of other opinions, the warnings went unheeded in the US.

Sweden was an outlier in keeping schools open, premised upon the rationale that social and mental wellbeing outweighed the risk covid posed to students[0].

I relocated from NYC to Stockholm early in the pandemic which gave me some interesting insights on comparative covid responses.

[0] https://www.gu.se/en/news/only-in-sweden-primary-school-rema...

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#215

Post by runako »

SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #112
runako wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot of talk about this in parent's groups on FB. Basically, parents all want their kids in school as daycare. Schools have logistics problems due to students/teachers/support staff/bus drivers/etc. being sick. I think if some parents could enlist the police to drag sick teachers to school, they would do that. In my area, schools are combining classes across grade levels because teachers are sick but parents…

The person you’re responding to asked only about teachers though.

Teachers and administrators participate in some of those groups. Some people even manage to be teachers and parents simultaneously. School board members sometimes have kids in their districts. The discussions tend to cover a lot of bases.

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#216

Post by dv_dt »

datavirtue wrote: post #103
superfrank wrote: post #18

I'm not sure I like this article. They seems to overstate what the sources they link to claim. For example the article says > Some researchers are skeptical that school closures reduce Covid cases in most instances. But when you go to the study they link, it says > Although school closures reduce the number of contacts children have, and may decrease transmission, a study of 12 million adults in the UK found no diffe…

There is a dangerous level of cognitive dissonance around school closures that effects nearly everyone. I have to filter arguments by finding out if the people making them have or do not have kids in school. People with kids in school just want schools open. Teachers and administrators want schools open. ...and therefore politicians want schools open. There are a lot of vested interests that bias toward opening schoo…

I have kids in school. I don’t want them open during this kind of Covid surge. I also think the attribution of poor learning in the previous surges to remote learning, ignores a whole set of coincident factors and has more to do with wanting everyone to get back to work with kids in care.

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#217

Post by elpakal »

unionpivo wrote: post #198
elpakal wrote: post #128

[RANT] At this point I've lost faith in my generation, my parents' generation, and everything in between and outside of that. I don't care what your degree says or does not say. I don't care about your credentials. I don't care about your politics. Everyone has been wrong. MY YOUNG CHILDREN SHOULD NOT HAVE TO CONTINUE WEARING MASKS AT SCHOOL WHEN THEY ARE VACCINATED. That is no way to grow up indeed.

> At this point I've lost faith in my generation, my parents' generation, and everything in between and outside of that. I don't care what your degree says or does not say. I don't care about your credentials. I don't care about your politics. Everyone has been wrong. MY YOUNG CHILDREN SHOULD NOT HAVE TO CONTINUE WEARING MASKS AT SCHOOL WHEN THEY ARE VACCINATED. That is no way to grow up indeed. And I don't want my k…

Viruses are not new. The article is about when we move on from a 2 year pandemic. I hope you’re not suggesting kids always wear masks because viruses.

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#218

Post by asdff »

Jensson wrote: post #197
barry-cotter wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The effects of this are going to be with us for decades. Unlikely. The evidence from kids who get sick enough to miss a lot of school is that at worst it takes three years for them to be indistinguishable from those with uninterrupted school attendance. Even unstructured homeschoolers, who have little to no explicit instruction of any kind, are only on average a grade level behind average children[1]. The last hist…

> The evidence from kids who get sick enough to miss a lot of school is that at worst it takes three years for them to be indistinguishable from those with uninterrupted school attendance. Is this really true if the entire class missed a few years? It is very different having one kid who missed a lot and then later interacts with kids who all didn't miss a lot, and a class where every kid is behind a couple of years.

It's not like every kid is falling behind though. Plus you only need to look at history, and probably within your own family to find a few examples, of generations of children who are educated throughout hard truths and stressful times like war or famine and go on to be alright. Zoom and a mask isn't ideal, but a lot less stressful in comparison to something that could easily have given you significant PTSD.

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#219

Post by empressplay »

halostatue wrote: post #121
throwawayboise wrote: post #4

I am very thankful that my youngest graduated high school in 2020. The last couple of months were screwed up, but there wasn't much real education lost by then; most seniors pretty much check out after Spring Break anyway. I really feel for the kids who are younger. The effects of this are going to be with us for decades.

Highly unlikely. My wife taught children who came out of Sarajevo in the mid-90s and many of them have gone on to excel in life. Children are resilient. What is _hurting_ them is not the school closures, but the panic and uncertainty that some people have put around this.

That panic and uncertainty is hurting all of us.

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#220

Post by jdminhbg »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #213
jdminhbg wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is comparing the risk of death for people who are hospitalized to the risk for their age group, which is missing the major confounding factor that those who are hospitalized for Covid (especially in younger cohorts) are very disproportionately sick (from diabetes, obesity, immune issues from transplants, etc).

There's no evidence that Covid infects diabetics (or other "unhealthy" people) at a higher rate. Hospitalizes them, sure. The negative group should've had a correct proportion of "unhealthy" people. Again - even if it is only increasing chance of death in "unhealthy" people... It's still increasing chance of death!

> Hospitalizes them, sure.

Re-read the citation, it's specifically looking at hospitalization.

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