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No Way to Grow Up

nytimes.com

181–190 of 714 posts

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#181
post #49

Except that real solutions never seem to be on the table. For example, how about atomizing school into pods of smaller numbers of students with teachers scattered around the district instead of 30+ students per teacher with 1000+ students crammed into a building or campus? This would be especially effective for the youngest students. And a "Covid Outbreak" would shut down less than a dozen students and a teacher for…

I’m inquiry: do we have enough educators for that plan?

Almost certainly not. I suspect we don't even have enough teachers for the old system at this point.

But money can fix the problem given time. Lack of money can, of course, fix nothing over time.

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#183

> For the past two years, Americans have accepted more harm to children in exchange for less harm to adults. At first we didn't know how much harm the virus would cause to children. But now that we see it is much less dangerous for them we shouldn't be preventing them from learning because we are afraid of getting sick. The children are the future, and in order to secure a positive growth in society it is our obligat…

Having dead or sick parents and teachers is also a terrible outcome for children.

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#184
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the human tendency to optimise the quantifiable and ignore the unquantified. (The unquantified is often partially quantifiable, but that would take effort , and the statistics aren't currently on the dashboard…) See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law > When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure.

> It's the human tendency to optimise the quantifiable and ignore the unquantified. Are you sure that isn’t just a modern trend now that we are able to quantify so much stuff?

I'm not much of a history buff, but I can't recall a good example of cultures or societal periods with emphasis on optimizing the unquantifiable (Or having no optimization preference at all). The only decent examples that I can think are in laws, and that only seems to be favored because things are difficult to be quantified, not because the unquantifiable was more preferred.

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#185
> "For the past two years, Americans have accepted more harm to children in exchange for less harm to adults."

The overall tone and style of this article is just... I don't know.

As a parent of elementary school children, I spent 2020 and 2021 seeing this stuff first-hand. Having arguments with other (non-parent) liberal friends on social media. Once they discovered that I was out of step on this one item of the current moment's orthodoxy, suddenly I was "voted off the island" altogether.

It was surreal. People who I thought were personal friends, a lot of their minds just flipped like a switch, and suddenly I was immediately and completely shifted over into the "right-winger" mental bucket. It wasn't just the "you think of school as free daycare" ignorant assumptions. I had friends assume that my views had changed on abortion, climate change, etc.

I still can't wrap my head around some of those conversations. I have completely abandoned social media, cut myself off from the vast majority of what I thought was my social support system, and discarded any delusions about political or cultural identity fundamentally having any bearing on human nature.

The New York Times was ONE OF THE PRIMARY DRIVERS of my social cohort's orthodoxy, to which I had become a heretic and outcast. To go through all of that, and then read an article from the same New York Times, echoing the same heresy? FUCK YOU. It's just too much.

I've noticed over the past few weeks that this article's main thrust is taking shape and being established all over the place as the new orthodoxy of the current moment. All of these harms were seen and known even at the time, a year and a half ago (my children aren't seeing a therapist for nothing), and were downplayed or dismissed outright. It seems unfathomable that the narrative has flipped around 180-degree so abruptly. I believe that the focus on harms seen in minority children is the loophole, or "new information", that seems to give people mental "permission" to change their viewpoint now.

The brutal truth is that in Year 3, even most progressives are reaching the point of being "over" the pandemic. So they are able to open their eyes and minds a bit. I don't know whether that enough for people to revisit the attitudes and assumptions that they were making back at the time. I don't know whether I even want to reconcile with most of those old friends even if they do. But it makes me sick to my stomach watching the NYT shift and slither from one zeitgeist to the next.

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#186
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There appears to be a weird blind-spot when discussing COVID outcomes - anything short of death appears to be discounted or ignored. So hospital issues, long COVID, etc. just don't exist, so catching it either didn't matter or you're dead. On a planet where that was true, that sort of reasoning would make sense. (As it does if you're trying to encourage other people to ignore risks.) What I don't understand is why so…

And also the abnormally high ratio of people who die within 1 year of catching Covid from other reasons: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/covid-19-survivors... 233% increase in chance of death for people less than 65... 183% increase for people 65+: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fmed.2021.77843...

The article actually says it's 233% increase in chance of death for people younger than 65, which is even scarier:

> For people younger than 65 who were hospitalized with COVID-19, the risk of death in the 12 months after the infection was 233% higher than it was for people who did not have the disease, results published in the journal Frontiers in Medicine have shown.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fmed.2021.77843...

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#187
While the whole world has experienced this pandemic, there is an incredible variety of pandemic experiences out there. Within the United States there are so many variables between states, counties, cities, school districts, and families. A common feature of COVID debate I have noticed is that it often seems like people are not even talking about the same thing.

I live in a state that has had a fairly restrictive approach to COVID - my kids were in remote learning for about a year and we had two periods which could arguably be called "shut downs." But our fortunate circumstances made it so that I do not feel like it was particularly difficult for our children. As a result I have not reacted very strongly to local authorities continuing very cautious policies regarding masks and cohorting in schools. I was initially perplexed by the very strong reactions against the same among my peers, but am coming to understand that, like what this article points out, it has been very difficult for other children.

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can say the opposite about the other side as well... Anything short of eradication (which is impossible) means nonstop lockdowns, masking, vaccine mandates and making the unvaccinated pariahs. What I don't understand is why you would shut down schools and enforce silly unhelpful mask mandates on them when the science shows children do not spread the disease in any meaningful way and are not badly affected by it.…

Schools in my district are shut down because there aren’t enough substitute teachers to fill in for sick or retired faculty. The older ones are getting sick and dying, or quitting before they do. The younger ones don’t want to be paid $35k a year to be screamed at by parents for not teaching subjects the way parents want them to be taught. Browse /r/teachers some time. It used to be a sub full of teachers venting ste…

No post body was provided.

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#189
post #54

I'm not sure I like this article. They seems to overstate what the sources they link to claim. For example the article says > Some researchers are skeptical that school closures reduce Covid cases in most instances. But when you go to the study they link, it says > Although school closures reduce the number of contacts children have, and may decrease transmission, a study of 12 million adults in the UK found no diffe…

There appears to be a weird blind-spot when discussing COVID outcomes - anything short of death appears to be discounted or ignored. So hospital issues, long COVID, etc. just don't exist, so catching it either didn't matter or you're dead. On a planet where that was true, that sort of reasoning would make sense. (As it does if you're trying to encourage other people to ignore risks.) What I don't understand is why so…

Where are you seeing this?

I'm seeing the opposite. Most public officials and news articles seem to only care about case numbers, which have very little meaning these days.

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the right time to invest was 20 years ago The second best time to plant a tree is today

It’s probably too late, this country is about to fracture. All the indicators point to a coup coming in the next few years which will launch us into an unknown realm of violence. We’re way deep into “the cool zone” now.

I highly disagree. It is never too late. I will continue to roll up my sleeves and work for change and I hope you join me.
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