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Real Problems That Web3 Solves, Part 1

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Re: Real Problems That Web3 Solves, Part 1

#141

Post by mattlondon »

ilogik wrote: post #137
mattlondon wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> uncensorability I suspect that this will be a major issue in the long-run. Once these sort of crypto-based logins become synonymous with CP and terrorism, they're going to be shunned by the average person on the street. Yes yes yes, people use email and whatsapp for the same, but at least there is the option for Google and Facebook to censor or block/ban those users (and it feels like there is increasing legal/legi…

if I run an online service, and you login with web3, if you're an asshole, I can still ban your "indelible" account

Yep - so there all these claims about no censorship or gatekeeping etc are clearly bullshit.

Re: Real Problems That Web3 Solves, Part 1

#142

Post by mattlondon »

lamontcg wrote: post #132
mattlondon wrote: post #67

> We need some way of saying “who we are” on the internet in a consistent manner. That way we can communicate with others in a verified way and associate with digital data that we own. We also often need that data to be interoperable between different web properties. Do we really need this? Do we really want to permanently tie identity across websites like this? I find this initial "need"/justification/requirement qu…

Yeah I think it is mostly businesses that think this is a huge problem to solve to have identities matched across everything seamlessly. Mostly what I care about is logins and payments which are addressed by password managers and form filling for credit cards. I just want a friction free experience for setting up an account, logging back into it, and maybe purchasing something. And ideally I'd like to self-host, mayb…

> Yeah I think it is mostly businesses that think this is a huge problem to solve to have identities matched across everything seamlessly.

Your comment just gave me a thought - just imagine the online advertisers using this for tracking purposes!

At the risk of spreading FUD, it would not surprise me to learn that perhaps this web3 thing is being fuelled/funded by the existing crop of online advertising networks or their close associates? (or at the very least they are watching this situation develop with an incredibly close level of detail)

Who needs cookies if you have a 100% reliable & long-lived (potentially immortal?) ID that the user takes with them everywhere they go online (and is the same on every site they visit) and for every purchase they make (using that wallet) online and offline?

This would be advertising networks' absolute dream situation if it becomes widespread - users voluntarily creating their own unique tracking fingerprint and using it on all the sites they visit, as well as helpfully logging all of their purchases they make with that ID on a public ledger that anyone can mine the data from.

It really does not get much better for the online advertising industry than that.

If you want a cynical take on web3 and are looking for your next billion dollar startup idea, then web3 ad tracking & targeting might be your best bet :)

Re: Real Problems That Web3 Solves, Part 1

#143

Post by Traster »

I'm glad someone took the time to write this. I think it's quite interesting that the prime example picked here is UI issue. The author freely admits that the "web3" solution is basically just private keys with better UI. I'm not all that up to date on web3 stuff, but... it's not UI.

The quote from Vitalik is great though - the goal of crypto is to let people make all the same mistakes and find out single central authorities actually have been established for a reason.

Re: Real Problems That Web3 Solves, Part 1

#144

Post by hffft »

jdlshore wrote: post #11

Several years ago, Mozilla/Firefox created "Persona," which was an open-source federated identity system that provided all the benefits described here. The idea was that it would eventually be built into browsers. I used it on a commercial site myself for many years. It failed to gain traction, and Mozilla eventually pulled the plug. Persona had many advantages over the Web3 vision described in this article. It was p…

> Persona had many advantages over the Web3

it has none now ;)

Re: Real Problems That Web3 Solves, Part 1

#145

Post by codeptualize »

jVinc wrote: post #65
herlitzj wrote: post #17

I honestly thought this was going to be a joke post because that top image is ridiculous. Maybe I'm just old, but it reads to me as Web 1.0: Great Web 2.0: Ugh, ok Web 3.0: You're serious with this?

It's not Web 3.0, that was the semantic web, which also aimed in some sense to be decentralized data but wasn't about turning the internet itself into a vehicle for ridicules investment ponzi-schemes. The "new" one is Web3

This is what bugs me most about this whole web3 situation, if people want to dump their money into these ponzi-scheme pump and dump bs be my guest, but then naming it web3 isn't very nice.

To then attach all kinds of good qualities to it that are not shown, nor proven, and often demonstrable incorrect just finishes it off.

As you say, a lot of the bigger ideas claimed to be part of this "new" web3 thing aren't new, and are interesting ideas that should be further explored, it would be much better without the ponzi sauce.

Re: Real Problems That Web3 Solves, Part 1

#146

Post by thebean11 »

endisneigh wrote: post #139
thebean11 wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's plenty of evidence out there for this You are completely moving the goalposts, I thought we were talking about internet services trying to prevent spam..not government snooping and subpoenas. Are you claiming the government's ability to collect data about you from Google is a good thing? I'm pretty confused. > Again, you're not answering the question. What does the web administrator do if someone is creatin…

you don't really make any sense. sorry. I already addressed your points. the government point is not really relevant. the point is that a web admin has recourse with Google and/or government depending on the nature of the activity. good luck

I just don't see how "ask Google / the government to tell me the identities of its customers" could be seen as a positive of the current system for 99% of cases. Especially given that Google likely won't even have the information, especially for an account created to commit serious crimes warranting NSA snooping or legal intervention. Just like creating a private key, you don't need a SSN or a passport to create a Google account, or most other email providers.

I feel like you are intentionally ignoring the dangers of SSO tied to a company that can unilaterally delete your account, and has little incentive to unlock it or even let you plead your case.

Cheers.

Re: Real Problems That Web3 Solves, Part 1

#147

Post by jeroenhd »

spinny wrote: post #78
vanusa wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point was usability. And being (effectively) forced to join / legitimize their hive to get anything done. It's absurd how HN users in general are so dismissive of anything cryptocurrency. It's quite reasonable actually, given the prevalence of not just hype, but frequently delusional / just plain rambling and incoherent hype surrounding it -- not to mention blatant fraud and manipulation aimed specifically at unso…

> My point was usability. And being (effectively) forced to join / legitimize their hive to get anything done I agree with you on this. For the purpose of login in with a private key, i would prefer some browser extension (or built in the browser) that generates a key from a seed (like a crypto wallet) and only does that. This doesn't exist at this point. > ... not to mention blatant fraud and manipulation aimed spec…

> For the purpose of login in with a private key, i would prefer some browser extension (or built in the browser) that generates a key from a seed (like a crypto wallet) and only does that. This doesn't exist at this point.

What about https://www.yubico.com/products/yubikey-5-overview/ or https://cloud.google.com/titan-security-key/ or https://krypt.co/ (before it was acquired, I still use it though) or any of it's equivalents?

Re: Real Problems That Web3 Solves, Part 1

#148

Post by codeptualize »

Traster wrote: post #143

I'm glad someone took the time to write this. I think it's quite interesting that the prime example picked here is UI issue. The author freely admits that the "web3" solution is basically just private keys with better UI. I'm not all that up to date on web3 stuff, but... it's not UI. The quote from Vitalik is great though - the goal of crypto is to let people make all the same mistakes and find out single central aut…

I do think a lot of these things go round the circle then end up on the same solutions we had before.

Coinbase is a nice example; turns out it's quite nice if some sort of company protects your money, makes sure you don't loose access to it, provides you with insurance in case something goes wrong, and lets you easily send, trade, and convert money. Such a revolutionary idea, right?

Re: Real Problems That Web3 Solves, Part 1

#149

Post by AlexandrB »

This is probably the first blockchain use case that I've found compelling, outside of using its obvious use as a speculative asset of course. I hope the author elaborates more on this in the next part because there are still lingering questions - like how much would CRUD operations on your digital identity cost? After all, most blockchain technologies have associated "gas" or other transaction fees.

Re: Real Problems That Web3 Solves, Part 1

#150

Post by BlueTemplar »

codeptualize wrote: post #145
jVinc wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not Web 3.0, that was the semantic web, which also aimed in some sense to be decentralized data but wasn't about turning the internet itself into a vehicle for ridicules investment ponzi-schemes. The "new" one is Web3

This is what bugs me most about this whole web3 situation, if people want to dump their money into these ponzi-scheme pump and dump bs be my guest, but then naming it web3 isn't very nice. To then attach all kinds of good qualities to it that are not shown, nor proven, and often demonstrable incorrect just finishes it off. As you say, a lot of the bigger ideas claimed to be part of this "new" web3 thing aren't new, a…

web3 = Web 4.0 I guess ?

(Just like IPv5 never got anywhere ??)

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