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No Way to Grow Up

nytimes.com

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Re: No Way to Grow Up

#141

Post by jdminhbg »

tehjoker wrote: post #37

I wonder how all those kids with long covid will view decisions to physically disable them potentially for life so the state could force their parents to work. I wonder how kids mental health copes with the idea that adults will intentionally expose them and others to a deadly disease with no mitigations to make money.

> kids with long covid ... physically disable them potentially for life

At what point do we decide that totally evidence-free hysterical claims like this are as much misinformation as anti-vaxx posting is?

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#142

Post by nsainsbury »

dijonman2 wrote: post #132
nsainsbury wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think anyone is ignoring long COVID and hospital issues. Hospital capacity is discussed front and center daily and is the primary justification given for lockdowns. Also, please see this recent meta-analysis which found that when you actually add a control group, most "long COVID" symptoms disappear in children. A higher study quality was associated with lower prevalence of almost all symptoms. Original tweet…

How many hospitalizations are due to covid and how many just happen to test positive?

Appears to be very very common (as high as 2/3 'with' covid vs 'for' covid). See: https://twitter.com/MonicaGandhi9/status/1478401273317654528

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#143

Post by cm2187 »

throwawayboise wrote: post #4

I am very thankful that my youngest graduated high school in 2020. The last couple of months were screwed up, but there wasn't much real education lost by then; most seniors pretty much check out after Spring Break anyway. I really feel for the kids who are younger. The effects of this are going to be with us for decades.

It always surprises that left-leaning politicians and media were the most fervent advocates of school closures, because it has disproportionately affected kids from the poorest backgrounds. What I see around me is that educated couples invested the time to make up for the lack of school education (and were typically home working themselves), so those kids will probably do OK, other kids were left on their own all day.

I think it is more of a relative problem than an absolute problem.

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#144

Post by bmitc »

monkeybutton wrote: post #14

So, is Covid the shock that leads to the education system being reinvented for the better or do school boards just keep bumbling along like before? Do zero-tolerance policies really work? Why are students falling behind in mathematics compared to the rest of the world? Does overloading of take home work produce better test scores, or does it just consume free time and stress out kids? Are teachers ever going to be pa…

I think COVID is the inflection point that puts the U.S. behind compared to other countries who have a more collective culture and less extremism in politics.

I have seen nearly every aspect of life in the U.S. take a major hit. Nearly no one cares about anything, and the attitude of taking care of me myself and I seems rampant.

I have been worried about children since day one, from social disorders to education. We have several generations that basically missed out on two years of schooling from pre-school through university levels. That can't be good in one to three decades time, even if we i prove the issues tomorrow.

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#145

Post by buscoquadnary »

throwaway75787 wrote: post #53
swayvil wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Seeing the lower face is important to reading emotion. The masks muffle speech as well. I wonder if children, especially in that critical 2-4 year-old period, will have stunted language and interpersonal skills. It's not right.

So personal anecdote our two year old is behind on speech, we had someone come in to evaluate him and he mentioned that he has been seeing it a lot, citing that because so many people are wearing masks, and the kids weren't spending more time around other people it had created a trend he had noticed.

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#146

Post by joshstrange »

AlwaysRock wrote: post #85
superfrank wrote: post #18

I'm not sure I like this article. They seems to overstate what the sources they link to claim. For example the article says > Some researchers are skeptical that school closures reduce Covid cases in most instances. But when you go to the study they link, it says > Although school closures reduce the number of contacts children have, and may decrease transmission, a study of 12 million adults in the UK found no diffe…

Welcome to link "citations". Journalists use links as a way to back up their statements because almost no one will click on a the link and even less will actually read it. Link "citations" are used a lot.

Yep, between that and twitter "citations" which make me want to scream. I don't care what NateDog2244 said on twitter, that could be the "reporter" for all I know. You can find someone defending/attacking ANY position online so you can cherry-pick like crazy.

I'll admit I'm much less likely to follow links when my confirmation bias is kicking up into high gear but I've been trying to force myself to do it more after I received an article from a parent that I knew was full of BS and after following the links (the ones that weren't dead) I found the studies linked actually refuted the position the original article took. For way too much of my life I took "Blue text with underline" (or whatever color the style it to) meant "fact"/"cited"/"backed up", that couldn't be further from the truth.

I encourage everyone to follow links even if you are "sure" the article is 100% true, it can be very eye opening. At the very least you will get a better understanding.

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#147

Post by ianbicking »

monkeybutton wrote: post #14

So, is Covid the shock that leads to the education system being reinvented for the better or do school boards just keep bumbling along like before? Do zero-tolerance policies really work? Why are students falling behind in mathematics compared to the rest of the world? Does overloading of take home work produce better test scores, or does it just consume free time and stress out kids? Are teachers ever going to be pa…

"So, is Covid the shock that leads to the education system being reinvented for the better"

I don't really see how this would happen, or even how they connect. Covid is keeping our schools from even being schools. It's displaying the flaws in our larger system, but it doesn't really speak at all to what's good or bad in the classroom itself. EXCEPT that we've had a natural experiment where kids are removed from the classroom, and it turns out classrooms are pretty good educational environments compared to remote school or ad hoc home school! If anything this indicates we don't need to reinvent our schools, we just need to reinvent our school HVAC.

(We also aren't reinventing school HVAC, which is disappointing because of all the options in front of us that's about the easiest.)

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#148

Post by quadrifoliate »

animal_spirits wrote: post #5

> For the past two years, Americans have accepted more harm to children in exchange for less harm to adults. At first we didn't know how much harm the virus would cause to children. But now that we see it is much less dangerous for them we shouldn't be preventing them from learning because we are afraid of getting sick. The children are the future, and in order to secure a positive growth in society it is our obligat…

"Children are our future and you should be prepared to accept arbitrary Covid consequences for them" might be a compelling argument on an orange web site, but it is not going to be one when you present it to over-worked, under-appreciated teachers who have families of their own and their futures to worry about.

Bringing back pensions and providing free post-retirement healthcare for teachers and their families will back up grandiose statements like yours with actions. With the current right-wing thinking in vogue in the US, I suspect there is vanishingly little chance of that happening.

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#149

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

_jal wrote: post #54
superfrank wrote: post #18

I'm not sure I like this article. They seems to overstate what the sources they link to claim. For example the article says > Some researchers are skeptical that school closures reduce Covid cases in most instances. But when you go to the study they link, it says > Although school closures reduce the number of contacts children have, and may decrease transmission, a study of 12 million adults in the UK found no diffe…

There appears to be a weird blind-spot when discussing COVID outcomes - anything short of death appears to be discounted or ignored. So hospital issues, long COVID, etc. just don't exist, so catching it either didn't matter or you're dead. On a planet where that was true, that sort of reasoning would make sense. (As it does if you're trying to encourage other people to ignore risks.) What I don't understand is why so…

And also the abnormally high ratio of people who die within 1 year of catching Covid from other reasons: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/covid-19-survivors...

233% increase in chance of death for people less than 65...

183% increase for people 65+: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fmed.2021.77843...

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#150

Post by wayoutthere »

ajmurmann wrote: post #97
wayoutthere wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an attempt at manufacturing consensus by making it seem like these arguments are coming “from the adults in the room” because it’s in the NYTimes. They’re so good at gaslighting their readers (and I say this coming from the left of the NYT, not the right). You’ll start to see liberal politicians using these same talking points in the coming weeks, guaranteed.

"You’ll start to see liberal politicians using these same talking points in the coming weeks, guaranteed." This article's position seems to be more in line with the Republican's general stance on the pandemic. So isn't it a good thing of the left can revise its position?

It’s not the left; it’s the biden administration feeding meat into the machine. They have absolutely betrayed their voter base in favor of their corporate donors and they will pay for it in the next election when that base simply doesn’t show up.
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