Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

No Way to Grow Up

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 714 posts

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#131

Post by 99_00 »

superfrank wrote: post #18

I'm not sure I like this article. They seems to overstate what the sources they link to claim. For example the article says > Some researchers are skeptical that school closures reduce Covid cases in most instances. But when you go to the study they link, it says > Although school closures reduce the number of contacts children have, and may decrease transmission, a study of 12 million adults in the UK found no diffe…

You're cherry picking from the study.

>They seems to overstate what the sources they link to claim.

With a title like this, I think they are understating what the source claims.

Closing schools is not evidence based and harms children https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n521

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#132

Post by dijonman2 »

nsainsbury wrote: post #125
_jal wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There appears to be a weird blind-spot when discussing COVID outcomes - anything short of death appears to be discounted or ignored. So hospital issues, long COVID, etc. just don't exist, so catching it either didn't matter or you're dead. On a planet where that was true, that sort of reasoning would make sense. (As it does if you're trying to encourage other people to ignore risks.) What I don't understand is why so…

I don't think anyone is ignoring long COVID and hospital issues. Hospital capacity is discussed front and center daily and is the primary justification given for lockdowns. Also, please see this recent meta-analysis which found that when you actually add a control group, most "long COVID" symptoms disappear in children. A higher study quality was associated with lower prevalence of almost all symptoms. Original tweet…

How many hospitalizations are due to covid and how many just happen to test positive?

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#133

Post by giraffe_lady »

zepto wrote: post #116
sg47 wrote: post #107

Gun violence in schools has increased so we should be sending children to school? There were school shootings before the pandemic and there are school shootings now. Nothing has been done to address either the mental health issues or access to guns.

What has this got to do with covid? Also, guns have been more easily available in the past than they are now. Access to guns isn’t causing the uptick in school shootings. If we knew what was causing it, perhaps we could address the problem.

We pretty much do know what causes school shootings though? I mean the causes are complex and there is much disagreement about which ones contribute what and how much, but the broad strokes are known.

The issue is that 1) this information comes from the hn-accursed social sciences, 2) people don't like the answers and 3) we aren't willing to solve the problem anyway so why proselytize it?

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#134

Post by CountDrewku »

_jal wrote: post #54
superfrank wrote: post #18

I'm not sure I like this article. They seems to overstate what the sources they link to claim. For example the article says > Some researchers are skeptical that school closures reduce Covid cases in most instances. But when you go to the study they link, it says > Although school closures reduce the number of contacts children have, and may decrease transmission, a study of 12 million adults in the UK found no diffe…

There appears to be a weird blind-spot when discussing COVID outcomes - anything short of death appears to be discounted or ignored. So hospital issues, long COVID, etc. just don't exist, so catching it either didn't matter or you're dead. On a planet where that was true, that sort of reasoning would make sense. (As it does if you're trying to encourage other people to ignore risks.) What I don't understand is why so…

You can say the opposite about the other side as well... Anything short of eradication (which is impossible) means nonstop lockdowns, masking, vaccine mandates and making the unvaccinated pariahs.

What I don't understand is why you would shut down schools and enforce silly unhelpful mask mandates on them when the science shows children do not spread the disease in any meaningful way and are not badly affected by it. This is the "blind" spot I see.

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#135

Post by tomrod »

swayvil wrote: post #61
tomrod wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Typically, reliable authority. Though the organization as a whole is often targeted by right-wing propaganda outlets much more critically than right-wing propaganda is denounced by the rest of society. This article is a hashing out of concerns parents or others have regarding children and how they've experienced COVID-19 as well as associate non-pharmaceutical interventions. Dynamic control problems are hard, even mo…

That was rhetorical. I'm saying that our population is largely composed of capricious bugbrains.

Rhetorical questions are not default mode on a forum designed for discussion and Q&A.

Our population isn't composed of capricious bug brains, for the record, we are human with typical gray matter and studies have found that people are generally consistent.

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#136

Post by Ergo19 »

titanomachy wrote: post #56
VeninVidiaVicii wrote: post #6

The last half century or so was not as calm as all these rose-colored articles would have you believe -- at least on a global scale. Even still, we need to realign our expectations to a world that's going to be much more turbulent than we'd like.

This article is about the impact on kids of partially shutting down schools for two years due to covid. What part of the article is your comment responding to?

Are there places in the US which have had schools partially shut down for two years? I have not heard of anywhere being remote for more than 1 year.

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#137

Post by zepto »

Talanes wrote: post #122
zepto wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's the human tendency to optimise the quantifiable and ignore the unquantified. Are you sure that isn’t just a modern trend now that we are able to quantify so much stuff?

Modern society is just the result of countless generations of the human tendency to quantify. We just have so many things quantified now that our problems tend to be more "using the wrong quantifications" rather than "not having the right quantifications."

> Modern society is just the result of countless generations of the human tendency to quantify.

Is it? I see no evidence to justify this statement at all. Care to show some?

The vast majority of how society is organized seems to eschew quantification in favor of descriptive qualification. Most laws, and governance, for example are formed that way.

The use of metrics in governance has been dramatically increasing as our methods of quantification have developed, but that is definitely a modern development.

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#138

Post by datavirtue »

animal_spirits wrote: post #84
Alex3917 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The children are the future, and in order to secure a positive growth in society it is our obligation to give them their very important education. Great, so just set up a fund to compensate teachers and daycare workers who get long covid in order to pay their salary and medical expenses for the rest of their lives if they're unable to work.

Our taxation system is already set up for these kinds of transactions, and we definitely should be putting more money into teacher salaries and education.

No we should not. They all get a pension. Do you know how much pensions cost? There are people on waiting lists to fill teacher positions. The benefits make up for the low bank deposit.

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#139

Post by zepto »

giraffe_lady wrote: post #133
zepto wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What has this got to do with covid? Also, guns have been more easily available in the past than they are now. Access to guns isn’t causing the uptick in school shootings. If we knew what was causing it, perhaps we could address the problem.

We pretty much do know what causes school shootings though? I mean the causes are complex and there is much disagreement about which ones contribute what and how much, but the broad strokes are known. The issue is that 1) this information comes from the hn-accursed social sciences, 2) people don't like the answers and 3) we aren't willing to solve the problem anyway so why proselytize it?

> but the broad strokes are known.

I’ve rarely seen any broad brush stroke other than ‘guns’ being blamed.

2) people don't like the answers

Don’t they? Or do they simply not agree with the answers.

Social science results are in fact very weak, as is constantly being shown.

That is because it’s hard to do social science and the disciplines are relatively new. The way to improve this is not to pretend social science is better than it is, nor is it to ignore social science altogether, but to recognize its shortcomings and critique it.

Also, your account is only 12 days old. I don’t think that is long enough to determine what is ‘accursed’ on HN. HN goes through trends and shifts over time.

> 3) we aren't willing to solve the problem anyway so why proselytize it?

Are we not? So we give up and to do something unrelated, in the name of solving the problem? That seems even worse.

It doesn’t seem like we’re going to get rid of guns, so we may as well proselytize the real solutions.

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#140

Post by [deleted] »

29800795 wrote: post #92
xwdv wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is obvious what will happen. The education system will crumble, inequality will grow, and to make up for having a poorly educated work force we will adopt more automation or AI-assisted tasks with very structured workflows to reduce cognitive requirements. Only elites will be able to afford giving their children strong educations and social experiences, presumably with other elite children. This will allow some ch…

Your first paragraph is the set-up to the novel Klara and the Sun by Kazuo Ishiguro.

[deleted]
Post reply on HN